Ericson tiller and mid-boom sheeting for the single hander

[grarya01]

Newbie question here, apologize if some of my terminology is wrong. As I'm hunting to buy my first sailboat and looking for an Ericson between 27' and 30' (see my wanted post here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...9-have-advice-or-a-boat-pnw-wanted-wtb.19808/) I'm weighing the differences between the wheel option with end-boom sheeting and the tiller with mid-boom sheeting, specifically regarding single-handing. I believe these were the 2 configurations the E27 came in. Is that also true for the other sizes up to 30? Or were there other configurations in regards to tiller models and traveler locations? I saw that maybe the 30 with tiller had the traveler on a small aft deck instead of the cabin top. I apologize if this information is readily available online somewhere, but I've scoured quite a bit and have not had much luck.

I've always thought my first boat would have a tiller instead of a wheel. I like the feel and simplicity of it and I like how I could buy 2 tiller pilots (1 for backup) and still likely be under the cost of a single wheel pilot setup. However, all of my experience with tiller setups have utilized end boom sheeting and allowed for easy control of the main sheet while at the tiller.

For the E27 or other models with tiller and mid-boom sheeting, is this close to the stock setup (sans the self tailer)? Or did they originally come with a 3:1 setup?

Does the mainsheet then get cleated off on a horn cleat aft of the winch if not using the self tailing winch?

So to my main question, are there folks out there that single hand with the tiller and mid-boom sheeting setup and if so, do you find the stock configuration easy enough to handle? Increasing purchase on the mainsheet and upgrading blocks etc. seems like an easy solution for making it easier to pull in the main. But what about quickly easing it during a puff?

Have you made any modifications to make it easier to single hand with this setup or do you have ideas or plans to, if so what are they?

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[bigd14]

My former E27 had tiller and mid boom sheeting. The tiller extends pretty far forward in the cockpit so you could sit in the forward position and easily steer and handle the mainsheet and traveler controls simultaneously. I used a fiddle block with a cam cleat attached to the traveler instead of leading the mainsheet to the mast base and then back to a winch. More info here:

Traveler tackle upgrade

We need to reduce the effort needed to bring the traveler up. Stock ratio is 3 to 1. There is a Harken big bullet block and becket on each side of the main sheet car. This leads out to an upright double mounted on the bottom of the combing, with the line tail going up thru a cam cleat on each...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[grarya01]

My former E27 had tiller and mid boom sheeting. The tiller extends pretty far forward in the cockpit so you could sit in the forward position and easily steer and handle the mainsheet and traveler controls simultaneously. I used a fiddle block with a cam cleat attached to the traveler instead of leading the mainsheet to the mast base and then back to a winch. More info here:

Traveler tackle upgrade

We need to reduce the effort needed to bring the traveler up. Stock ratio is 3 to 1. There is a Harken big bullet block and becket on each side of the main sheet car. This leads out to an upright double mounted on the bottom of the combing, with the line tail going up thru a cam cleat on each...

ericsonyachts.org

Thanks, that looks like a nice setup. Is that something you could make work with a dodger, or am stuck with routing the mainsheet to the mast and back to the winch when a dodger is installed?

 

[bigd14]

Good point. No, a dodger would be in the way of that setup. The 30+ I have now also has mid boom sheeting, and the main sheet is routed to the mast and then back on the port side to a ST winch. I installed a cam cleat to hold the mainsheet for when I need to use the winch for other purposes (third photo below, winch is just to the left outside of frame). I would prefer a little more purchase, but it works fine most of the time. Actually I would really prefer more traveler purchase as we seem to use that as much or more than the main sheet.

EDIT: Pre-1984 30+ models have bridge deck mounted travelers. Still "mid" boom attachment but closer to the helmsman than later version with the cabin top traveler.

 

[Christian Williams]

As a point of reference, the larger Ericsons went to wheel steering and put the mainsheet on the cabin house. That eliminates immediate mainsail control by the helmsman--which turns out to be not an issue at all. It's the genoa sheets the helmsman wants when tacking, the main can wait.

Wheel steering greatly benefits from installation of a $1500 wheel pilot for casual singlehanding. It's always there, doesn't have to be rigged like a tillermaster and doesn't interrupt the cockpit. The wheel brake on a wheel also can serve as a temporary course-holder when leaving the helm to trim the main. But a wheel really needs a T-shaped cockpit designed for it.

I like tillers fine, and they do usually put the mainsheet within reach (which is awkward to accomplish with a wheel). I have just come to find "within reach" not to be an important factor.

 

[G Kiba]

I single handed an E27 for 18 years. Tiller and mid-boom sheet. I updated the main sheet and traveler with new Harken blocks. Traveler was 4:1 and main was 3:1. All halyards, single line (1st and 2nd) reef and vang all lead back to the cockpit. The E27 tiller location is almost mid-ship so you are in reach of jib sheets and all the other controls. In rain and cold you can even stand in the companionway and steer. Was one of the best setups I have sailed. I also updated the winches slightly larger and 2:1. The standard winches are undersized. I loved sailing my E27.

 

[grarya01]

I single handed an E27 for 18 years. Tiller and mid-boom sheet. I updated the main sheet and traveler with new Harken blocks. Traveler was 4:1 and main was 3:1. All halyards, single line (1st and 2nd) reef and vang all lead back to the cockpit. The E27 tiller location is almost mid-ship so you are in reach of jib sheets and all the other controls. In rain and cold you can even stand in the companionway and steer. Was one of the best setups I have sailed. I also updated the winches slightly larger and 2:1. The standard winches are undersized. I loved sailing my E27.

Thanks, this is helping to ease some of my concerns. I wasn't really thinking of the close proximity of the tiller to the controls, but that makes a lot of sense. When sailing upwind in gusty conditions what was your procedure for quick depowering? Would you rely more on the traveler, or just uncleat the main from the horn cleat (or a cam cleat) and ease. Or were you using a self tailing winch for the main sheet? Maybe its a non-issue and I'm just overthinking as I tend to do sometimes....

 

[G Kiba]

Thanks, this is helping to ease some of my concerns. I wasn't really thinking of the close proximity of the tiller to the controls, but that makes a lot of sense. When sailing upwind in gusty conditions what was your procedure for quick depowering? Would you rely more on the traveler, or just uncleat the main from the horn cleat (or a cam cleat) and ease. Or were you using a self tailing winch for the main sheet? Maybe its a non-issue and I'm just overthinking as I tend to do sometimes....

No winch on the main. Just a cam cleat. And it's a 6:1 not 3:1 like I mentioned above. I guess it has been awhile. The main on the E27 is relatively small. Here in the SF Bay and Delta, if the wind is up. It is up! 15-20 in the summer. And this year looks more like 15-30! So I would put in a single or double reef right at the beginning. Typically if it got too windy on me, I would start with a single reef and add the double if needed. In winds 8-15, I could carry a full main and traveler off or feather (point slightly above to bleed off the wind). As I recall I did not do a lot of main sheet adjustments. This first picture shows the main sheet block and part of the harken traveler. There is a green line running through the center of the 3 blocks on the boom. That line keep the blocks from spinning and twisting the lines running trough the block. Harken blocks come with an anti-swivel lock that I tried but it restricted movement too much. I saw this line trick in a pirate movie where large wooden blocks were fastened together to prevent twist. The other picture show my tiller extender in its lock. I would use this to lock the tiller to go forward or below. Very handy! I could even use it to help tack by loosening the extender section to steer through tack and then lock it once on the next tack. This freed both hands to handle the sheet (steering with tiller between the legs). I miss that boat! Although my new boat is a real beast. Olson 911s are hard to find. The last is the kite i added just before selling. The new owner got a real good boat.

 

[grarya01]

No winch on the main. Just a cam cleat. And it's a 6:1 not 3:1 like I mentioned above. I guess it has been awhile. The main on the E27 is relatively small. Here in the SF Bay and Delta, if the wind is up. It is up! 15-20 in the summer. And this year looks more like 15-30! So I would put in a single or double reef right at the beginning. Typically if it got too windy on me, I would start with a single reef and add the double if needed. In winds 8-15, I could carry a full main and traveler off or feather (point slightly above to bleed off the wind). As I recall I did not do a lot of main sheet adjustments. This first picture shows the main sheet block and part of the harken traveler. There is a green line running through the center of the 3 blocks on the boom. That line keep the blocks from spinning and twisting the lines running trough the block. Harken blocks come with an anti-swivel lock that I tried but it restricted movement too much. I saw this line trick in a pirate movie where large wooden blocks were fastened together to prevent twist. The other picture show my tiller extender in its lock. I would use this to lock the tiller to go forward or below. Very handy! I could even use it to help tack by loosening the extender section to steer through tack and then lock it once on the next tack. This freed both hands to handle the sheet (steering with tiller between the legs). I miss that boat! Although my new boat is a real beast. Olson 911s are hard to find. The last is the kite i added just before selling. The new owner got a real good boat.

Awesome and thanks for the extra detail. This is really helpful!

 

[Roger Janeway]

Thanks, this is helping to ease some of my concerns. I wasn't really thinking of the close proximity of the tiller to the controls, but that makes a lot of sense. When sailing upwind in gusty conditions what was your procedure for quick depowering? Would you rely more on the traveler, or just uncleat the main from the horn cleat (or a cam cleat) and ease. Or were you using a self tailing winch for the main sheet? Maybe its a non-issue and I'm just overthinking as I tend to do sometimes....

I had these same concerns when I got my E26-2 a few years ago, because my most recent sailing was on small daysailers (16') that I couldn't reef . So at first I was alarmed at the idea of the mainsheet being on a cleat (being used to hiking out to windward and easing the mainsheet immediately in gusts). It turns out an E26-2 is a lot more stable than a dinghy, even a dinghy with a full keel and lead. The answer, as G Kiba said, is that you reef. If you you were in trouble, you'd release the windward traveler sheet (it's in a cam cleat) and quickly depower. I don't know my purchases offhand but I have the setup you describe, and it's easy to tack & jibe single-handedly with the tiller, the jib sheets, and the traveler controls all in reach. None of my winches are self-tailing. I also have the two tiller-pilot system you envision though I haven't needed the backup yet.

I would think you'd have difficulty finding anything larger than a 27 with a tiller. On the West Coast everyone seems to prefer wheels starting at around 25 feet. If you're considering an E27, I think you should also look at an E26-2 if you come across one. The E26-2 has a LWL of 22' versus the E-27's 20.5, and a slightly higher SA/Disp ratio. But if you want more comfort in heavy seas, go bigger.

 

[Loren Beach]

If you want a tiller on the larger Ericson's or Olson's, in the 80's the Olson's were offered with either. The E-33RH had a tiller with wheel optional.

It was due to marketing rather than "handling". New sailors were comfortable with a steering wheel like their cars, and there was $$ to be made by catering to those demands. True of all of the builders.

 

[G Kiba]

If you want a tiller on the larger Ericson's or Olson's, in the 80's the Olson's were offered with either. The E-33RH had a tiller with wheel optional.

It was due to marketing rather than "handling". New sailors were comfortable with a steering wheel like their cars, and there was $$ to be made by catering to those demands. True of all of the builders.

I think I saw a post here of an E36 with a tiller also? I have seen several O34s with tillers and don't forget the infamous Cal40! I sailed one a few months back and the pure joy of tacking it singlehanded stays in my mind! What a wonderful sailing boat. If you ever get the chance to sail one you'll be in for a real treat.

 

[frick]

I sailed and raced my 1971 E29 for 20 years. She had a tiller. I had a tiller pilot, and often I would just extend my tiller handle and wedge it into the coming of the cockpit to go below for food and drink.