FX Sails

[Sailsteve]

I'm looking to buy new sails for my E36RH... Since I haven't bought sails in a long time I have sticker shock at the quotes I'm getting from North, Doyle and the big lofts. Then I came across FX Sails sold through SAILNET.COM. Their prices were substantially lower.

I'm going to be mostly cruising, but would like to be somewhat competitive in around the buoys races on weekends.

Does anyone out there have any real experience with FX versus "brand" names of sails? If you have information some questions: Do you race at all, or cruise? Can you compare the quality of the workmanship and fabric?

Help!

Steve

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Seth will say your boat deserves better but I am thinking my bank account can't stand better. Steve Swann who is on this site bought FX and was very pleased with the quality and service. I have talked to them and their price is $2300 for the 29T compared to Quantum who offered a tricked out main of 182 Sq Ft which is standard at FX for $3600 made off shore or $4200 made in country.

The FX rep has had good answers and what he has to say sounds logical.

Sale care will recondition and repair for a wild guess of $850 for both old sails.

I don't want that I don’t think and I am not sure I trust FX and I can't pay three grand for sails that is a quarter of the boat cost.

Seth will the FX sails perform well????
Steve how are your sails doing??????(performance)

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Both Quantum and FX prices in my post were for both a main and a 155.
Quantum did make a big deal about the main being 182 Sq instead of 165 which is the true triangle measure. FX didn’t mention their 192 being special

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Correction to a clarification

. FX didn’t mention their 182 being special.

 

[MarkA]

Went with Quantum

Steve,

I was curious about FX, and was very tempted to order from them.

However, I am happy I ordered Quantum instead.

First, the Quantum quote was a less than FX, by a couple hundred $$ per sail (for tri-radial pentex).

More importantly, when the Quantum rep came to the boat, he measured seemingly dozens more aspects of the boat than the FX measurement sheets call for. He spent two hours with me, and also gave advice for tuning the rigging, and other things.

Although I have not yet recieved the sail (12/13 delivery date), I feel comfortable knowing much more thought and effort went into fitting the sail to my boat than if I (mis)measured it myself and ordered online. When the sail arrives, the Quantum rep will hoist it and sail with me to make sure everything is perfect.

All that service and piece of mind is worth money to me, but I got it for less than FX.

Just sayin'

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Confused

Mark I read your post under crosscut sails and got excited only to be told by Quantum that it would be much more and we didn't need to measure the boat he had the specs. (I learned yesterday from a post that the 29T has three different boom lengths.) Also there was no offer to do anything but take my money and make sails for 50% more $$$$$ in Africa. I don't trust any of these people but am thinking if I am going to get S#%&@*# I want the biggest box of chocolate for the money or the least money for the chocolate.
I am comparing crosscut to crosscut
Where was the loft you worked with, I assume west coast and near you.

 

[Chris Miller]

other thread...

there's a very involved discussion about this topic and FX sails somewhere--- check a search for it.
Chris

 

[Loren Beach]

Sails, money, and bargains

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2811&referrerid=28

If you put the words FX sails into the Search box and click on "Go" this is probably the most applicable thread on this topic, but there are several others that also mention FX Sails.

Note that you only sometimes save money by going with the loft that advertises and defines itself as a discounter. I have found that, over the years, I can get a competitive price from a major loft by taking advantage of their fall discount program, for instance.

Backing off from considering only FX, and speaking of all the deep-discount sail sources for a moment: There are several ways that a sailmaker can lower costs in the "discount" end of the business--
1) They standardize on only sails for a handfull of large-run production boats, which often leaves out your Ericson. There are, after all, some economies of scale for building a standard-cut main or headsail for a (just one example) Catalina 27, with a potential customer base of 10000. 2) In catering to a less-discerning clientele, one or two shapes will fit all needs. (Because they say so, that's why).

3) Materials, both cloth and stitching, are sourced ruthlessly from the lowest bidder. 4) Everything except the means to hank on the sail for a light air day becomes an extra-cost option. Per actual ads I read, this includes "UV resistant thread", better corner reinforcing, draft stripes, your class emblem (!), and numbers. Sometimes even the leach line is an option on the order form.

IF I were having to sell an old production dinghy or small trailerable boat that had no usable sails, I would put an inexpensive set on it in a heartbeat. Then the ad could honestly read "new sails!"


Once you get into boats large enough for sustaining themselves for a rough day on open water when the wind goes (or, yikes, stays...) over 20 kts and you must plan to make the needed 40 mile passage to the next port, I would argue for better quality and better cut sails from a name builder. Most of the owners on this site fall in this category, IMHO.

Note that we are not going to use the "R word" here. None of this is about racing. None.
If you ask a sailmaker about performance and he instantly asks if you are a "racer" and then starts telling you that those sailors need the much more expensive line of product, just jibe over, sheet in, and proceed back out the door. To me this would be like your mechanic telling you that you only need new rings in one or two cylinders of your 3 or 4 cylinder engine because you do not really need all that expensive efficiency.

Oops, time for my morning coffee! Sun's up!

Best Fishes,
Loren in PDX

 

[MarkA]

Quantum

Randy,

I went with Quantum in Long Beach, CA. Todd Wheatley is the rep.

Seth knows Todd, and had nothing but great things to say about him. In my brief experience, I'd say Seth was right on the money.

By the way, I also got quotes for cross-cut dacron from both FX and Quantum. Again, Quantum was a few hundred $$$ less. I was able to take advantage of a Fall discount, but I think most of the savings come from "optional" items being free on Quantum, but extra charges at FX.

I'm sorry your experience was so much different from mine.

 

[Steve Swann]

E25 New FX Sails - I'm happy

Folks,

Bill James delivered exactly what he said he would do in the timeframe promised. I am in Boise, Idaho, so I don't have the luxury of a sail expert coming to my boat to measure.

I am certainly no expert on sails, nor do I even know the right questions to ask. Bill lead me through the process and I ended up purchasing (now) 5 new sails from FX.

Aside from the clean stitching, straight sewing, and apparent detail in the fit and finish, the sails have beautiful Ericson logos on them, racing numbers, upgraded slides, overbuilt reef points and cunningham, aluminum headboard, etc. It appears the draft and how the sails fill, are perfect for our boat. The batten pockets and battens are easily installed and removed, the sail adjustments work perfectly (example, the leach lines are really effective) and the sails really move the boat much faster than the rags they replaced.

Again, I am no expert, but Bill made some great suggestions which I accepted (such as a fuller roach, loose-footed main), and I feel that the delivery promises and the intrinsic value of the sails was fully provided by FX sails. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bill James and staff.

Steve Swann
E25 Seahorse

 

[MarkA]

Great news!

That's great to hear!

 

[Sailsteve]

Steve Swann... Do you race with those sails?

How do they perform when you race?

Steve

 

[Steve Swann]

Racing?

I have yet to try these sails racing, Steve. As you can see from our posted pictures, we aren't exactly a stripped out version of a 25! We have the requisite BBQ, water tanks, full bimini for hot days, flushing marine toilet, marine antifouling paint, shaft and non-folding prop in the water all the time, etc., etc. We sink well into the water with all our wannabe-a-bigger-boat luxuries.

We will be racing next summer, but most of the seasoned racing sailors around here are thinking Seahorse will make a great Committee Boat. Maybe they are just intimidated by what this Ol' Girl will do against the Hunters, Macs, and Catalinas!

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Steve
If you had a TV, surround sound and your laptop on board you could race like I do. If I run aground or the wind dies I want the necessities. Don't forget the fully stocked bar, OH for me that is tequila and diet Bud. We look at 50 Lb of comfort and debate whether to add the item yet we add a 200lb crewmember because he doesn't have a ride for the race.

Don’t let the fact your boat is setup for cruising stop you from racing, you will learn a lot and with steady wind the weight is not a killer. You might be surprised at the perfoemance. We have a fully provisioned 25+ in our club that is fast. On Lake Weiss the wind comes and goes on light air days. A heavy boat may move a little where a lighter boat will move on out with a puff but a heavy boat will coast through a small flat spot. Read the wind and the water and take her to the mark.
As stated before one bad tack or tactical mistake will kill all the $$$$ spent on trick items

 

[Steve Swann]

What about MY mistakes on the racecourse?

We'll certainly get Seahorse out and around the buoys next year. She is too much fun to sail not to. Besides, we might try to use the BBQ as a smokescreen....

We have our boat to enjoy the water, association with [most of] the other sailors, the scenic beauty of where we live out our time off from the city, and the company of each other. The race course will likely just be a diversion for a few hours to enjoy the aforementioned opportunities.

If I really wanted to be competitive at buoy racing, I think I'd opt for something brand new and techy - but then I'd have to give up my subscription to "Good Old Boat" magazine.

Steve Swann
E25 Seahorse
Boise, ID

 

[Seth]

COuple things

I have nothing negative to say about FX sails in particular-but the thing that has been mentioned here once or twice is that when you really do an apples to apples comparison-using the same style of materials and construction, FX (and others low cost vendors) is the same or even slightly more than the name brnad sails.
It is not fair to ask FX for a crosscut, cruising dacron and compare that price to a sail built from a higher end dacron, or composite material (crosscut or tri triadial).

Quantum is now pushing a balanced weave (class? anyone remember this from my sailcloth disucssion?)-meaning it is equally strong in both principal directions and hence very suitable for crosscut construction-which saves considerable $$ in labor. This is the Fusion X-a very nice, high end composite fabric which would compare nicely with tri-radial composite (Pentex, CXP7, etc.) materials..

This does make it hard to compare, but to be fair, get quotes for a cruising fabric, crosscut dacron with all options. Then price the same but with a higher grade dacron (less stretchy).
The 3rd option should be a tri-radial composite sail with the same options.

Now you can fairly compare prices for the full range of styles of sail construciton. Then ask if they have a better way to do something better than a dacron crosscut (ie. Quantum will also offer the crosscut Fusion X sail).

Otherwise, I think you are getting absolutely the right comments here from the group here!

 

[Sailsteve]

I did the deed...

So here I am, the recipient of lots of good advice and information from nice people much more knowledgeable than I in these matters. Buying sails is a lot like buying a piece of pastry, it can look great but taste awful. I can only say that since I posted the request for help I also did a lot of research. I called FX and I had a few at-length phone calls with the sailmaker. I had number of big questions to ask him which I think he answered honestly. He assured me that the sails would be made of the same fabrics used by the majors (Bainbridge and others). What about the design of the sails… better or worse? He said that his computer designs for cutting were done by the fellow who designs sails for Elvstrom in Europe, and that the sails themselves will be sewn in the United States in Florida not in Asia. I asked him about how he could accurately make me a sail without going aboard the boat. He said that what they do is to have the customer send them their old sails for measurement (at FX’s expense and arrangement-no extra charge) so luff and foot measurements are exact. A few other owner taken measurements help to round out the accuracy of what they’re doing. He told me that the sails are guaranteed for 5 years and that if there was a problem with the fit once on the boat he would personally call a local loft near my home and pay for adjustments. He also told me that FX’s prices were lower because this was his only loft. His overhead is low. He has no salesmen nor parent corporation to support. While I know a sales pitch when I hear one this pitch all made a lot of sense to me. So, finally after considering all the input from the folks on this site and my friends at my club I ordered a new tri-radial cut large roach Pentex main (with two full upper battens) and a tri-radial Pentex 155% genoa. The price for these two sails was somewhere around 40% less than I would have paid for similar type sails from North. The Pentex triradial main actually was $600 less than a bid I got on a crosscut dacron main. I won’t be able to see the new sails on the boat until the spring, but I’ll try to report back to this thread in May and let all know how they work out in my world of cruising and fairly competitive club racing.

If these sails suck I have only myself to blame, but I have a gut feeling that they won’t and that I made a pretty good deal. Even with the savings though the sails were still twice what I paid for my first new car (that’s a dead give-away to anyone who tries to guess my age). In any case, they’re going to be a light years ahead improvement over what I’m sailing with now.

Steve

 

[Seth]

Should be fine

Steve,

You asked all the right questions, and it sounds like yolu got the right answers.
Based on this, I see no reason you should not get a very nicely built sail.

Sometimes you end up with a better price (although it is prettyb easy to beat North's prices-usually) with these firms, sometimes, as I commenetd earlier (and others did as well) you don't.

There IS somethig to be said by working with a sailmaker who has built several of the same sails, and thus has a better feel for mast bend, stability, etc., but this does not preclude a good result.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

S

 

[Jayster]

You will be fine.

Steve,

Sorry I'm a little late to this tread. I took a hard look at FX Sails earlier this summer for all the same reasons you listed. I wound up purchasing a set of off the shelf sails for my E-32 from Sail Warehouse. I spent few summers in my early 20's working for Don McKibbin and Dave Ullmer. I have also raced boats from Thistles to Farrs and now a Swan. The sails I received from the Sail Warehouse were quite exceptional. They fit and had the shape were as if they were custom built for the boat. I had received a quote from Harry Patteson and these sails were 35% less. Unless you are worried about seconds per mile you should be just fine.

Good luck,

Jayster