Has anyone ever run aground in their 80s era Ericson?

[ofshore74]

Was speaking with a broker recently and the E34 I'm looking at ran aground (at a slow speed, 2 knots I think). Owner had it hauled out and there was a scrape on the bottom of the keel apparently nothing more, had the keel bolts tightened. Nothing notable other than the bottom scrape. Just wondering how sturdy these keels are and at what point something like this is a real issue - beyond water in the bilge or a smile at the forward part of the keel.

 

[Frank Langer]

Most sailors in our coastal area figure that it's not a matter of if you will run aground but when you will, and if you haven't grounded you haven't sailed much. While that may be a bit overdone, many boats have run aground at some point. If he really was going as slow as 2 knots, that's not much. The fact that he had it hauled right away and had the keel boats tightened is a good sign of him caring enough to be cautious rather than assuming everything is ok.

You should have a pre-purchase survey done in any case with any boat. Most competent surveyors can check the keel, keel/hull joint and the bilge area for any delamination of the fibreglass tabbing that could occur in a serious grounding. If that all looks ok, then I would not be concerned.

Just my opinion, and others will no doubt chime in with their thoughts!

Frank

 

[markvone]

I looked at and had surveyed a 1981 E36RH that had been run aground or into something very hard by the first owner. The second owner who, owned the boat for 22 years and knew the first owner, never knew it had been in an incident until I told him my surveyors report. The second owner had traded the boat in for a new boat and was truly shocked to here the news. He was helping show the boat for the dealer who was far away and had no stake in the sale to me. He then related that he had always had a 0.1 knot speed difference on upwind tacks and had never learned why. He also said that none of his insurance surveys had found the issue, a truly sad situation.

The keel was angled approximately one degree off vertical and there was an approximate 10 inch wide horizontal crack at the center limber hole in the TAFG cross member at the aft edge of the keel (that should never have been missed) where it had been driven up into the TAFG by the impact. There was no other damage to the hull and the keel joint did not leak. My expert said it would be straight forward to fix and re-bed the keel but it would not be cheap. I declined to purchase only because the dealer would not reduce the price to cover the cost of the repair.

From this experience, I would be confident you could really whack something hard going fast and sustain minimum damage to any of the TAFG boats.

Here's the crack:

Mark

 

[supersailor]

I hit a rock last year in the Gulf Islands doing 5+ knots. This was due to a miscalculation of an extreme cross tide (the locals called it "Sneaker Rock"). Apparently, many people have found this rock. This was the first time I have grounded in 60+ years so it happens to the most cautious of us.

The total damage to Terra Nova was two scratches in the starboard bottom 3" of the keel and a broken stove gimbal. Unfortunately, the wife was just starting to go in the cabin. She did a face plant into the hatch then fell into the cabin. This was a big fall in an E-34. After I wrestled the boat off the rock and set her on a safe course, I found her on the sole in a pool of blood in a confused state. A trip to the emergency room and stiches later I had a wife that looked like a raccoon but she didn't break anything. And she wanted to complete the club cruise. WOW!

These Ericson's are one tough boat. Most other boats would not have come out as well.

Buy an Ericson with confidence!

 

[Loren Beach]

Our '88 boat was well built. We ran it into a hard sand bar @ 6 kts, driving hard to weather on a windy afternoon.
When we hit hard and the boat stopped with a thud, and straightened up, our keel was buried one foot deep. (Verified when I pulled the boat out a week later as a precautionary check up).
No problem with bolts, keel alignment, or hull attachment. The yard owner commented that he did not even expect to find any problem because it was built by Ericson. Yeah he said that.

It took Vessel Assist with their twin big OB service boat to pull us off.... good thing we carry their insurance... the $700.+ bill was presented as 'paid in full' !!


So get your new boat surveyed, and do not worry about a light-duty grounding, which happens to most everyone who leaves the dock, at some point.


Regards,
Loren

 

[Rocinante33]

There are two types of sailors; those who HAVE run aground and those who WILL run aground!

 

[ofshore74]

Most competent surveyors can check the keel, keel/hull joint and the bilge area for any delamination of the fibreglass tabbing that could occur in a serious grounding. If that all looks ok, then I would not be concerned.

Thanks Frank, will bring a bright flashlight along for a good inspection of the bilge. Yes owner was overly cautious about the grounding, these boats have a heavy construction from what I've seen, which is why I'm still considering it.

 

[ofshore74]

I looked at and had surveyed a 1981 E36RH that had been run aground or into something very hard by the first owner. The second owner who, owned the boat for 22 years and knew the first owner, never knew it had been in an incident until I told him my surveyors report. The second owner had traded the boat in for a new boat and was truly shocked to here the news. He was helping show the boat for the dealer who was far away and had no stake in the sale to me. He then related that he had always had a 0.1 knot speed difference on upwind tacks and had never learned why. He also said that none of his insurance surveys had found the issue, a truly sad situation.

The keel was angled approximately one degree off vertical and there was an approximate 10 inch wide horizontal crack at the center limber hole in the TAFG cross member at the aft edge of the keel (that should never have been missed) where it had been driven up into the TAFG by the impact. There was no other damage to the hull and the keel joint did not leak. My expert said it would be straight forward to fix and re-bed the keel but it would not be cheap. I declined to purchase only because the dealer would not reduce the price to cover the cost of the repair.

From this experience, I would be confident you could really whack something hard going fast and sustain minimum damage to any of the TAFG boats.

Here's the crack:

Mark

Crazy story! The fact that no one knew is insane considering the impact of that damage.

 

[ofshore74]

Our '88 boat was well built. We ran it into a hard sand bar @ 6 kts, driving hard to weather on a windy afternoon.
When we hit hard and the boat stopped with a thud, and straightened up, our keel was buried one foot deep. (Verified when I pulled the boat out a week later as a precautionary check up).
No problem with bolts, keel alignment, or hull attachment. The yard owner commented that he did not even expect to find any problem because it was built by Ericson. Yeah he said that.

That yard owners comment is quite an insurance policy! Clearly these boats have a reputation hence the reason I keep coming back to them. Thanks.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

1985 32-3 collision

This summer I hit a rock motoring at 5.2 knots. The result was a $20,000 repair to the TAFG (including removing and rebedding the keel). The boat would have been a total insurance loss but for my decision several years ago to replace the glued down cabin sole with one that is screwed down. Otherwise, it would not have been possible to access the areas that needed repair.

 

[ofshore74]

This summer I hit a rock motoring at 5.2 knots. The result was a $20,000 repair to the TAFG (including removing and rebedding the keel). The boat would have been a total insurance loss but for my decision several years ago to replace the glued down cabin sole with one that is screwed down. Otherwise, it would not have been possible to access the areas that needed repair.

Yikes! Sorry to hear, that sounds brutal. Definitely some big ticket items. Lucky you redid the sole.

 

[eknebel]

This summer I hit a rock motoring at 5.2 knots. The result was a $20,000 repair to the TAFG

I like the Chesapeake bay soft sediment even better now. By the way, in the Chesapeake, we run aground all the time, as it is shallow. most of the time the "mayonnaise" just slows you down gradually, so it is sometimes hard to notice in light winds(which we also have in abundance). If there was rocks, more attention would be paid to depth, but around here, if the depth sounder says 8 feet you are in relatively deep water!

 

[bgary]

if the depth sounder says 8 feet you are in relatively deep water!

I have that at my marina, too. Everett marina is at the mouth of the Snohomish river, and the main channel is basically a settling pond for the river silt.

I have my depthfinder offset set to show distance from the bottom of my keel, and it is not at all unusual for it to display less than 5 feet under the keel, even in the center of the channel. One day I went out in a -3' low tide, and... there were places where the depthfinder display just blinked (O_O)

Nice thing is, as soon as you clear the mouth of the channel, it goes from <10 feet deep to >400 feet deep within about a quarter of a mile.

 

[Christian Williams]

Geoff,

Will you tell us more of that TAGF repair story? What was the damage, what was the fix?

Any photos appreciated. Unusual occurence, far as I know.

Glad you're back on the water....

 

[toddster]

At Scappoose Bay, we used to dream about having 8 feet! Don't even think about entering/exiting during low tide during August/September. I got to intimately know the location of the high spot in the fairway. If a ski boat waked you in the entrance channel, the keel would *bump* on every wave trough.

Although during spring flood, you could probably sail another mile back into the swamp. If you wanted to.

 

[supersailor]

Up here in the Northwest we have rocks rising out of deep water all by themselves. The depth sounder can go from 280 feet to 10 feet to crash in a very short distance. I managed that last year while doing 6 1/2 knots through the water The tide was running against us at a large cross current and I frankly misjudged the set badly. We were traveling at approximately 5.5 knots and Terra Nova came to a halt in less than a foot. Total damage to the boat was two scratches on the bottom foot of the keel and a broken stove gimbal. Also a broken spoke on the wheel when it became my air bag. The wife was not so lucky. She fell through the hatch and onto the cabin sole. A trip to the local hospital patched her up. The 34 is one tough boat!

 

[toddster]

Every time my depth gauge tips over "100" I think it means "10.0" and start to do a panic U-turn. Of course, sometimes it does mean 10.0. :0

 

[eknebel]

LOL! I don't know if mine goes over 100!

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Geoff,

Will you tell us more of that TAGF repair story? What was the damage, what was the fix?

Any photos appreciated. Unusual occurence, far as I know.

Glad you're back on the water....

The details are that I just joined a new club in Mamaroneck, NY. The backlight on my Garmin 3005c crapped out (not reparable due to, lack of parts, thanks Garmin) so I was returning to harbor using the buoys. There is one, "MM", that is at least .1 miles from shore that is marked as a mid channel marker (green over red) so I decided to go around the starboard (east side). It turns out that it is not a mid channel marker in the normal sense but an indicator of a channel that splits off 90 degrees to the right. Just behind the buoy is "Ship Rock" a conical rock (so the depth sounder was of no help). It was dead low tide and the bottom six inches of the keel struck the rock bringing the boat to an abrupt halt, throwing me into the wheel, bending it severely. I was motoring at 5.2 knots at the time. (The commodore of my club told me yesterday that it is a "gotcha"; I didn't even have to tell the yard which rock I hit.

The impact caused the keel to pivot backwards driving the stainless post near the nav station up about 3/4 inch and causing some cracking to the TAFG below there. There was also separation of the forward 1/3 of the keel and a fist sized dent in the bottom of the keel. I think that was surprisingly little damage. While the hull flexed, knocking off bottom paint, the skin was not damaged. The keel was still firmly attached when the boat was first hoisted, due in large part I believe to my decision the last time I had the keel rebedded (3 times now in 20 years) to have stainless plates made to go under the keel bolts to spread the load.

Anyway, back in business, giving Ship Rock a wide berth and navigating with my iPhone & iPad and Navionics software which is far superior to Garmin's charts IMHO.

 

[eknebel]

Wow, what a impact! Glad injuries weren't too severe to crew, a tough boat! I personally know of a Catalina 30 that was run aground due to depth sounder failure, and the keel separated, sinking the boat(it was being driven onto a lee shore, but a soft bottom.)