• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Has anyone ever run aground in their 80s era Ericson?

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
What an impact. Boat stopped dead. And that is a big chunk of lead deformed. Glad no serious injuries.

Any leaks? How were the keel bolts on inspection?
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
The Catalina "smile" is famous. The boats flex then return to normal after the flex. The smile is what many surveyors look for to determine if the boat has grounded. Don't even ask about Hunters. The Ericsons will either bounce off very little harmed or break the TGAF without breaking the keel-hull joint with the odds far favoring the bounce with little damage. I know that Terra Nova bounces very well.
 

eknebel

Member III
off topic alert: nautical triva on smiling and frowning boats

Interesting, not too much of a surprise though.

Totally off topic: A friend of mine works in the Justice department, dealing with maritime law. A large vessel that is loaded will flex downward or smile, thus actually taking less draft than the same boat frowning(minus the lowering of the boat waterline with loading), because the frown sucks the boat down a few feet. he had a case based on miscalculation of draft, underway the frowning boat took more water than at rest.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
The amount large vessels flex is scary. I've seen videos of large loaded freighters flexing at sea in a storm that will scare the heck out of you. The reason that they don't break under severe stress is the flexing takes the shock out of the loading keeping things from snapping. The metal fatigue must be substantial.

I wonder at what point it pays to make the boat flexible begins to benefit the boat. It's certainly not at our boat size.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
What an impact. Boat stopped dead. And that is a big chunk of lead deformed. Glad no serious injuries.

Any leaks? How were the keel bolts on inspection?

No leaks. I thought the keel bolts looked great after 30 years, but the yard seemed to think that there was some corrosion so they double bolted them. Of course, as I mentioned previously, I have already had the keel dropped twice before in the 20 years I have owned the boat, once to check for corrosion after purchase and a second time after the boat was soft grounded when the mooring dragged in a storm and the seam had opened.

A couple more observations: First, the prior owner apparently had grounded the boat because I observed a stainless screw imbedded in the impact area. That suggests to me that some lead had been screwed on. It also explains caulk in the bilge area that I now know covers some cracks. Second, the yard was dubious that it could fix the boat for the $30,000 in insurance which is all the company would give me due to the age of the boat. The yard believed that the TAFG had been bonded to the hull and had become delaminated. After review of the Ericson manual and investigation, they agreed with me that the TAFG was bonded only in limited areas. Some of these areas are the cutouts where glass cloth was laid over the cutouts and theoretically bonded to the hull. However, the yard cored one or two and discovered that Ericson had not fully wetted out the cloth and that there was no bond. The yard left it as is, figuring that the boat had made it this far without any adverse consequences. I'm no engineer, but it seems that the strength of the boat is the TAFG and the hull just keeps it afloat.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Good info, thanks. I too am impressed by the TAFG and glad to have it. (Although if holed beneath it we will not be stuffing our socks into the breach)
 

ofshore74

Member III
The yard was dubious that it could fix the boat for the $30,000 in insurance which is all the company would give me due to the age of the boat.

Miraculous the TAFG grid protected the hull with such an impact! And always interesting to hear the opinion of boat yards on price. I asked my local yard for a cost to drop and re-bed the keel they said $4000 yet a local surveyor I'm working with said try $8000. And the more I look around at yard prices the more they vary wildly on opinion and price when dealing with a grounding.

If I am learning anything about boat repair it's that you need time and know-how or money and lots of it. I think Loren says it better but I can't remember his exact quote right now.

On another note, one question I have for Geoff is, and I suppose anyone else who is willing to chime in, are there any regrets about investing this kind of money into something that floats? I understand big ticket items like keels dropping and structural damage drain the wallet quick but I suppose fixing a flooding basement in a house takes just as much money and doesn't contribute to an adventurers lifestyle, but a caretakers at best.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
are there any regrets about investing this kind of money

Not if its insurance-company money.

Otherwise it's usually optional.
 

ofshore74

Member III
are there any regrets about investing this kind of money

Not if its insurance-company money.

Otherwise it's usually optional.

In hindsight I realize the question is not relevant to Geoff's situation as Insurance covered the expense. I guess I was curious in general about big expenses as it relates to boats/ownership, but that's a bit off topic.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
About those 'requirements'

In hindsight I realize the question is not relevant to Geoff's situation as Insurance covered the expense. I guess I was curious in general about big expenses as it relates to boats/ownership, but that's a bit off topic.

I believe that one of our contributors, Captain Dan, said it well: (inexact quote, but close) .... to own a boat you must have Time, Money, and Skill; any two will usually suffice.

And then there are the very few with really deep pockets, and $$$ is all they seem to need!
:rolleyes:

Loren
 
Last edited:

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
On another note said:
My wife used to chide me about the "per sail cost', but not any more; she has embraced the concept of messing around in boats. Moreover, when you have owned a boat for 20 years and put a lot of work (and money) into it, you grow attached. When there was a possibility the insurance company was going to total the boat, I started looking around for a replacement, but just couldn't get excited about starting over at 65. However, I imagine I'll be forced to look for a new insurance company next year!
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Keel rebedding redux

Well, the keel rebedding was not entirely successful because the seam continued to seep water. The yard agreed to do it yet again (fourth time in my 20+ years owning the boat). It was discovered that some of the bilge fiberglass has delaminated (unclear if from the accident, removal of the keel, manufacturing defects or a combination) so they started to grind away at it and the photo below shows me sticking my fingers into the hole that appeared when they got finished. It seems that the fiberglass at the bottom of the boat was much thinner than expected, had voids and, to make a bad situation worse, the TFG does not extend to the forward keel bolt. Not exactly robust construction. There is no way to remedy that without cutting out the mast step. As a result, the yard vacuum bagged sixteen layers of fiberglass to the out side and will re-attach the keel next week. Can't wait to see the bill for that (although they have agreed to split the bill with me since the first fix did not do the job).IMG_1182.jpg
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
That is very disturbing, but I am having a hard time visualizing where this is on the hull where you are sticking your fingers in. Is it at the keel/hull joint with the keel dropped?
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
It's at the turn from the slope of the keel stub to the flat mating surface for the keel, which was removed (several inches back from the leading edge). It's a sharp turn and there must have been a manufacturing void that opened up during the grinding. The yard told me they expected to see maybe an inch of fiberglass in this area, but it seems more like half an inch. I suppose that is why the leading six inches of the keel joint would always open. There is a single one inch bolt under the mast backed by only a washer (until I had plates installed many years ago) so there is probably flex in that area. The remainder of the joint has always stayed tight indicating no flex from side to side.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
wow. that looks... robust. have they rigidly affixed the keel-hull joint, or is that just a surface coating over the repaired area?
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
It is. I ran my finger over it and the transition is not detectable. Unfortunately, there is nothing they could do about the fact that the front bolt is supported by fiberglass only 1/2 inch thick. It seems likely that had I not had the keel bolt washers replaced by 1/2 SS plates many years ago, the front bolt might have pulled out of the keel stub (the whole keel rotated causing damage - since repaired - to the TFG at the stern end of the keel). Maybe Ericson was cutting corners or maybe they thought that there is so little keel supported by the front bolt on the 32 that thicker fiberglass was not required. If so, why use a 1 inch bolt there instead of the 1/2 bolt found at the trailing edge of the keel? Best not to hit any more rocks!
 
Top