Ignition wiring

csoule13

Member III
The Boat - 1983 Ericson 30+. Two weeks ago the engine wouldn't start up while coming back in. Anchored, and got the mechanic to come take a look. One of the red wires in the attached photo was no longer in the connection sleave. He reinserted it, crimped it down, and that was that. In addition, the ignition seems a little finicky when pressing the starter buttons. Sometimes it fires right up, other times, nothing. You can hear the click-click-click when the key is engaged, press the button, clicking goes quiet, but no sound of the engine trying to turn over.

In light of the fact that this is a new to us boat, and our first, I'm hoping to use this as a learning experience. How does one begin to troubleshoot here? It's one thing when it is me and my old man on the boat. Quite another once we start to bring out friends and family who might not enjoy the adventure in a tempermental starter.

20140503_121527.jpg
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I'm guessing that the click click sound you hear initially is your electric fuel pump, and the lack of response by the starter at times, while starting fine at other times, would seem to me to be a poor electrical connection in the starting circuit. That is not surprising in a boat that age, and it looks in the picture as if all the gauges and wires are original.

I have made it a practice on our E30+ to methodically check, clean and reconnect all the significant electrical connections about once a year--probably overkill, but it gives me peace of mind. I focus on the battery terminals, all the connections in the engine compartment, all the connections in the electrical panel in the quarter panel, all connections in the panel in the cockpit.

One simple thing to start with might be to replace the starter button--they are cheap, easy to install and might be a partial solution to your starting problem.

Good luck!
Frank
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
Replace the fuse holder from the start button to the starter solenoid

Good advice. This was the source of an intermittent problem I had last year that sounds very similar to the OP. It's easy to overlook.
 
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Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
In light of the fact that this is a new to us boat, and our first, I'm hoping to use this as a learning experience. How does one begin to troubleshoot here? It's one thing when it is me and my old man on the boat. Quite another once we start to bring out friends and family who might not enjoy the adventure in a tempermental starter.

Several years ago I wrote up a blurb on engine wiring modifications that are easy to do and greatly improve the engine operation starting and battery charging. They were posted on this site, but got lost. I had thought they had been reposted this year, however, I can't find them. Christian Williams put them into one of his threads and I copied them below. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.

Replacing the yellow/red wire to the starting solenoid (change "B") produces the biggest improvement for starting.


UNIVERSAL DIESEL WIRING MODIFICATIONS

During discussions on the Sailnet Ericson e-mail list about wiring problems with
Universal diesel engines someone asked if it would be possible to write a wire by wire
description of the changes we were talking about. I have endeavored to do that here.


Change “A” increases the battery charging current from the alternator by reducing the
length of the wire between the alternator and the battery.


Change “B” eliminates a common problem with Universal diesel engines, that being
insufficient power at the starter solenoid to start the engine. Increasing the wire size will
resolve the problem and may extend the life of the starter switch as the contacts get dirty.

Change “C”, which is not labeled on the wiring diagram but is shown there, uncouples
the starter switch from the glow plug switch. This allows you to start the engine without
holding in the glow plug switch. This is a convenience because the engine retains
enough heat to start without glow plugs for several hours after being shut down.
April 25, 2001

MODIFICATIONS

Turn the battery switch to “Off” before disconnecting any wires.

Change “A”: This change connects the alternator output directly to the solenoid battery
connection without going to the engine instrument panel and back again. The ammeter on the
instrument panel will only read the current going to the engine components (glow plugs, starter solenoid, fuel pump, blower, panel lights, and instruments. This is useful for troubleshooting if the engine has starting problems.
1. Disconnect the orange wire from the ammeter terminal on the panel.
2. Disconnect the other end of the orange wire from the alternator output terminal.
3. Install 2 new #10 wires, or one #6 or #8 wire, between the alternator output terminal and
the solenoid power terminal. There is already a large (1/0) red wire on this solenoid
terminal coming from the battery switch common terminal. [If you install a larger
alternator this new wire should be #2 or larger. You should also add a black wire of the
same size from the alternator ground terminal to the engine and battery connection point.]
4. If not doing change “B” tape both ends of the orange wire to prevent short circuits and to
keep the wire from flopping around.

Change “B”: This change replaces the #16 wire between the “Start” switch and the starter
solenoid. This small wire has caused starting problems in the past for many boaters.
1. Remove the yellow-red wire from the terminal of the starter solenoid.
2. Remove the fuse holder from the yellow-red wire or purchase a new fuse holder with 20
amp fuses.
3. Connect the fuse holder to the orange wire disconnected in step 2 in change “A”.
4. Connect the fuse holder to the now empty terminal on the solenoid.
5. Remove the yellow-red wire from the starter switch.
6. Connect the other end of the orange wire to the now vacant terminal of the starter switch.
7. Tape both ends of the yellow-red wire to prevent short circuits and to keep the wire from
flopping around.

Change “C” Shown, but not labeled on wiring diagram: This change has already been made on
many engine panels. It changes the starter circuit so that the glow plug push button does not
have to be pushed to operate the starter push button. It is primarily a convenience, but may
extend the life of the glow plug switch.
1. Disconnect the gray (?) jumper from the starter switch on the glow plug switch and
reconnect it to the other terminal of the glow plug switch. There is already a purple wire
on this terminal.
Put the changes that you make into your owner’s manual so the next owner doesn’t bad mouth the PO.
Tom Metzger
2/11/01

Ammeter replacement

To replace the panel ameter with a voltmeter.


  1. Put the red #10 wire from the ammeter on the VM positive stud.



  1. Put the orange (?) wire from the ammeter that goes to the key switch on the same positive VM stud with the red wire. If the ammeter voltmeter swap is the only change you are making then you should move both of the orange wires to the positive VM stud.



  1. Put the black wire from the ammeter ground stud on the VM negative stud and jumper to the ground stud for the lamp if there is a lamp and/or ground stud. If there was no lamp in the ammeter you will have to find a ground point on the panel and run a small black wire to the VM negative stud. There is virtually no current so any size black wire will do.


Connect the lamp wire from the ammeter to the lamp connection on the VM if there is one. If not the end of the wire should be taped so it cannot touch anything else and secured so it is not loose.


 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Auxiliary Engines, Harumph...

Guys,
Sometimes... I almost believe that there could be one monster web site for Universal engines !
And... a couple of teeny sites for all other questions about Ericson and Catalina sailboats.
:rolleyes:

Not to pick on Universal, however. I have lurked a little bit on amazingly long threads about the charms, weirdness, and quirks of Yanmar engines, as well.

Regards,
Loren

ps: Harumph! Harumph!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzbhbetwYFU
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Starter Button

I have replaced mine and it fixed the problem......er...sort of.

I know I eventually have to do the rewire that Tom, Christian and Maine Sail suggest too. I did modify my setup so I no longer have to hold the glowplug button while pressing start for it to work. Big improvement.

As they say here in the south, I no longer need to "mash" that ole button!
:nerd:
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
I've replaced the push button switches and the key switch on several Universal engines, but the problem is much less severe if the #16 yellow/red wire to the solenoid is replaced with #10. Fortunately, the wire is available in the harness, per my plan, if you also jumper the alternator output to the solenoid.

Lots of times the switches, which have a drain hole, get installed upside down so they fill with water.

I think on the new engines there is a solenoid relay so the wire size doesn't matter. I think on older engines it is easier to just move the existing wire rather than buying a relay, mounting and wiring it.

Some years ago I obtained a new push button switch which means I will never need one. That works for me.
 

csoule13

Member III
Thanks everyone. Long list of things to look at and trace around. The more I look at this photo, the more laughs I get. It looks like one of the wires is just three or four scraps crimped together. Obviously, someone just couldn't afford the extra wire after buying the boat.
 

Stu Jackson

C34IA Secretary
cs, that happens. It looks from your photos that there has been water intrusion into your cockpit panel. When we first got our boat, we installed a Sunbrella cover with snaps over the panel. While not waterproof, it does keep a lot of the water out.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Csoule,

If you're interested in working on your own electrical system--and much of that will be replacement of aging connections all over the boat--allow me to make a general suggestion: start building a tool kit and inventory of parts.

Buy good quality crimper and stripper now, the cheap ones simply don't work and you use them a lot. Here is wisdom (click for link) .

Also, there are a tremendous number of connectors required in the usual jobs, in several sizes, types and styles, plus labels, heat shrink, a heat gun, wire, loom and so on.

My real point is that this stuff is very expensive on the shelf at West Marine, and buying in "bulk" (25 pieces, not three) on line from, say, Defender works better.

(You only have to pay $2 each for a butt connector a few times before this sinks in.)

I'm not saying buy it all at once, just determine to build an inventory as an investment.

Most long-term owners wind up replacing everything on the boat.

As a result, we have a boat bought at a low price which is the equivalent of a $125,000 yacht but which ends up costing us only about $99,000.

Keep two sets of books.
 

drcam1

Member II
Thanks to all on this forum. Finally took the leap and rewired "Ariel". What an improvement. Still need to replace ammeter, but at least it is bypassed for now. Through the process, also revealed that my battery charger isn't really doing anything! hmmmmmm.......might explain why batteries only seemed to charge when the diesel is running! So..... I guess that is the next project!

Once again, thanks to all that contributed to this thread and the previous one detailing rewiring of an Ericson. I read through them multiple times and the job went by the book. Awesome!!!
 

Lawrence B. Lee

Member III
Starter Woes

I think I made every modification suggested in the above posts over a two year period and still Miss Annabel would refuse to start on the occasions I really needed her to do so. Like blowing down on a lee shore. Needing to reset a dragging anchor. I mean I separated the starter from the glow plug, did the famous Universal re-wire. Even put a solenoid on the glow plugs so they were really warm and toasty and I still averaged 3 starts out of 5 tries. It was not until I cut the mail and female wiring harness heads off on the motor side and hard wired every single wire involved to its mate that my starting woes ended. Sure Sure I could probably have gotten away with just hard wiring the starter wire but I was pretty frustrated at the time. Beside, Poxy the fiberglass guy at the yard was driving a bigger car than I was off of his repair work on my boat.

No fooling in the five years since Annabel Lee had her tubes tied (so to speak) she has never failed to crank and only failed to start (fuel issue) one time in hundreds of attempts. Yeah, I know she'll stutter for sure after this bodacious post and I know there are many reasons boats don't start but this was my experience.

I did have a clue it was a bad connection problem. If we were still tied to shore power she never failed to start. However once we were on the battery it was 3 out of 5 time again.

Larry Lee<label for="rb_iconid_15">
electrical.gif
</label>
Annabel Lee
E 32-200
Savannah, GA
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
I think I made every modification suggested in the above posts over a two year period and still Miss Annabel would refuse to start on the occasions I really needed her to do so. Like blowing down on a lee shore. Needing to reset a dragging anchor. I mean I separated the starter from the glow plug, did the famous Universal re-wire. Even put a solenoid on the glow plugs so they were really warm and toasty and I still averaged 3 starts out of 5 tries. It was not until I cut the mail and female wiring harness heads off on the motor side and hard wired every single wire involved to its mate that my starting woes ended. Sure Sure I could probably have gotten away with just hard wiring the starter wire but I was pretty frustrated at the time. Beside, Poxy the fiberglass guy at the yard was driving a bigger car than I was off of his repair work on my boat.

No fooling in the five years since Annabel Lee had her tubes tied (so to speak) she has never failed to crank and only failed to start (fuel issue) one time in hundreds of attempts. Yeah, I know she'll stutter for sure after this bodacious post and I know there are many reasons boats don't start but this was my experience.

I did have a clue it was a bad connection problem. If we were still tied to shore power she never failed to start. However once we were on the battery it was 3 out of 5 time again.

Larry Lee<LABEL for=rb_iconid_15>
electrical.gif
</LABEL>
Annabel Lee
E 32-200
Savannah, GA


Of all the problems we can have, the starting demon is the one that requires quick, decisive action. :0
 
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