Is the choice re-gelcoat or paint?

hanareddy

Member II
I know this is at least the millionth gel coat question, but NONE answer my questions. I have an ugly topside, but more importantly, the gelcoat is original from 1973 and has washed off to reveal black/gray in many places. I am definitely going to do something and that is why I am asking: should I [spray] re-gel coat the topside (after filling, where needed) or paint (after filling, where needed)??? Because I have wasted days trying to figure out why I am considering filling, then gelcoating, then painting. Seems redundant.

And I'll buy anything or pay for help (but I won't pay that) to get this done in May 2021.

Thank you, thank you, thank you...I AM AWARE that there are thousands of possible answers to these questions and I have read most of them. Still, total brain blockage on the approach I should take. I am doing it myself.
 

Attachments

  • 20200517_202031-01.jpeg
    20200517_202031-01.jpeg
    171.6 KB · Views: 15

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi hanareddy. You can paint over the gelcoat areas and the bare areas if they are properly cleaned, sanded and primed first. No need to gelcoat then paint.

As for paint vs gelcoat, I believe paint is easier to manage than gelcoat, unless someone is very experienced in gelcoat work. The newer paints are pretty accessible for DIY'ers. The two-part paints are more durable than the one-parts, but more finicky to manage the correct ratio of thinner (it changes constantly with temperature and sun exposure). I used Interlux Perfection two part for an E27 full paint job but that was 10 years ago and there may be better paints available now. It has held up well since then. I used the roll and tip method rather than spraying.

As for the nonskid, I was advised to knock it flat with a sander before painting it, which I did. But I am not sure that is entirely necessary. I used KiwiGrip which was a simple application, but plenty of other options as well.

Expect to spend a lot of time prepping. The more hardware you can remove the easier it will be. Good time to rebed hardware as well.

Good luck with the project, its a big job, but rewarding in the end.

Doug
 

hanareddy

Member II
Hi hanareddy. You can paint over the gelcoat areas and the bare areas if they are properly cleaned, sanded and primed first. No need to gelcoat then paint.

As for paint vs gelcoat, I believe paint is easier to manage than gelcoat, unless someone is very experienced in gelcoat work. The newer paints are pretty accessible for DIY'ers. The two-part paints are more durable than the one-parts, but more finicky to manage the correct ratio of thinner (it changes constantly with temperature and sun exposure). I used Interlux Perfection two part for an E27 full paint job but that was 10 years ago and there may be better paints available now. It has held up well since then. I used the roll and tip method rather than spraying.

As for the nonskid, I was advised to knock it flat with a sander before painting it, which I did. But I am not sure that is entirely necessary. I used KiwiGrip which was a simple application, but plenty of other options as well.

Expect to spend a lot of time prepping. The more hardware you can remove the easier it will be. Good time to rebed hardware as well.

Good luck with the project, its a big job, but rewarding in the end.

Doug
Thank you! I am still in the rabbit hole, but am going to emerge soon with a decision. The weather just got warm this week and I feel like blowing off my paid job to worship my boat. Of course, I need to work to pay for all of this boat worship.
 

Jerry VB

E32-3 / M-25XP
As for the nonskid, I was advised to knock it flat with a sander before painting it, which I did. But I am not sure that is entirely necessary. I used KiwiGrip which was a simple application, but plenty of other options as well.
I did NOT knock the nonskid flat before applying KiwiGrip on my '77 E27 (previous boat). I would recommend doing so (or fill in the grooves in the nonskid - probably easier). The KiwiGrip is thick when you put it on but it shrinks down as it dries. It looked good when I applied it but I had the nonskid printing through somewhat, especially where the KiwiGrip was thinner. I did not texture the KiwiGrip very aggressively which might have aggravated it.
 

Jerry VB

E32-3 / M-25XP
P.S. I bought 1 gallon for my E27 deck. I had some coverage anxiety... I got all the deck nonskid painted but had only a little left over and was a little thinner than I liked in some places due to the coverage anxiety. If I were to do it again, I would get an extra quart.
 

Gaviate

Member III
The weather just got warm this week and I feel like blowing off my paid job to worship my boat. Of course, I need to work to pay for all of this boat worship.
LOL... great minds think alike,,,I've had the same inclinations!! FWIW I am preparing to do a fresh coat on entire boat. I am throwing in the towel on the gelcoat idea as spraying anything where I am is just not workable. So here is what the rabbits and I have decided:
Bottom gets Total Boat's primer/sealer combination with West Marine CCP ablative to finish. Hull above water line, and top deck gets Alexseal 442 primer and then Alexseal top coat. Of course clean and prep all before primer, the bottom is going to be ALOT of sanding but not so much on hull and topsides, only where crack filling or repairing fiberglass. The rabbits wouldn't tell me the new colors for hull and topsides yet so technically I'm still partways in the hole but I can see the sun is shining!!
I will probably add nonskid to the topcoat paint when wet and then final coat to seal it in, easier to control density if applied as separate step at correct time.
Tho I am often targeted as an optomist, I expect entire project to take 10 uninterrupted daylight to dark days of my life...worth every second!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Warning: Personal Opinion, worth only $.02 on a good day.
:)
In conversation with our ship wright, while working on our re-fit and paint prep for about 9 months, I recall his observation of the general shine level progression going from the most basic owner 'roll and tip' to the clear coating system used by high end shops.

Subject to my misremembering the info, it might be:
1- roller/brush application of one part paints, like EasyPoxy and its competitors. With enough prep, this will have a not-too-dull shine for several years.
2- spray finish, same paint. Less sags or flaws if done in inside.
3- LPU finishes. Roll n tip. Spray potentially much better.
4- newer LPU finishes with a base color coat, and multiple clear coats on top.

There are examples of all of these methods in our moorage, and the dullness of the brushed-on paints is noticeable from 15 feet away. Owner applied, and I should note that a nearby boat that had a professional roll-n-tip finish applied is better, but not too much better.
There are several pro-applied LPU repaints, with no clear coating. They are about a "ten foot" surface, and their original shine was a five foot surface for the first five seasons.

Thing is, what we are all buying, IMO, is time, and protection of the substrate. Once the original molded gel coat surface is thinned too much by UV wear, you have to pick something... to again cover the laminate and restore some "looks".
Or, have a power boat that can park totally under a roof!

Speaking of renewing the surface, several boats have also had major repairs finished up by spraying on new gel coat, and then sanding and polishing it out. This is actually a pretty good solution, but is real labor intensive. OTOH, it does shine pretty darned well for about a decade. I would not advise that solely to save money.

It's hard to beat the original "mirror shine" of new gel coat out of a properly polished mold. Only thing with more reflectivity is the buffed-out clearcoatings.

IF.... new molded out gel coat is kept waxed and protected faithfully, it can still retain good shine for 20 years and more. UV is the -mortal- enemy, and boats exposed full time in southern latitudes will see the most surface gel coat erosion. Well applied gel coat from a quality builder is good to have--- we have some early-70's Ericson's and Cal's in our moorage with the dark color inner layers starting to show thru in a lot of little places, more on the south-facing side.
This is one appearance thing that suppresses the retail value of the majority of boats built in that era. While strength might be OK, shoppers are put off by the worn & discolored look. (boats in the Great Lakes where they are covered or stored thru the winters fare a lot better in this regard.)

Sidebar: as an example of how bad an amateur effort can actually be, some years ago while considering a move up, we took a day trip up to view an inexpensive early-80's E-38 in Puget Sound. When we got there, contrary to the glowing description by the seller, we found that the whole deck had been painted, really, with a coarse brush - like a broom. Paint on the hardware edges, too. It was amazing and depressing. There really was no reasonable price we could pay, given the level of restoration needed. The seller would have had to pay us at least 20K to take it away, IF the motor ran (almost invisible under a layer of oily dirt).
OTOH, we have never seen anything else that bad before or since..... :(

All that said, and it's probably too much said, when you have a "good old boat" and are willing to do all the prep work, a carefully-applied paint job by a careful owner will indeed restore it by 75% at least. Getting it back to where it passes the "ten foot test" is a huge step up. You might get by for well under 1 or 2K in total materials cost, and the improvement will be gratifying. Very much so. :)
 
Last edited:

JPS27

Member III
Hanareddy, Andy at Boatworkstoday.com has plenty of instructional videos on gelcoating and painting, and at least one video comparing the two choices. Having done plenty of spot gelcoating repairs, I've decided that when the day comes I'm just going to paint. Gelcoating the whole thing just seems like a bridge too far given limited resources of time, money, and labor. RE the nonskid, I have used TotalBoat nonskid deck paint with great results. It greatly improved traction and it kept the nonskid pattern, which I like. With TB nonskid the pattern looks like it's supposed to be there, not like it's showing through.
 
Last edited:

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Warning: Personal Opinion, worth only $.02 on a good day.
:)
In conversation with our ship wright, while working on our re-fit and paint prep for about 9 months, I recall his observation of the general shine level progression going from the most basic owner 'roll and tip' to the clear coating system used by high end shops.

Subject to my misremembering the info, it might be:
1- roller/brush application of one part paints, like EasyPoxy and its competitors. With enough prep, this will have a not-too-dull shine for several years.
2- spray finish, same paint. Less sags or flaws if done in inside.
3- LPU finishes. Roll n tip. Spray potentially much better.
4- newer LPU finishes with a base color coat, and multiple clear coats on top.

There are examples of all of these methods in our moorage, and the dullness of the brushed-on paints is noticeable from 15 feet away. Owner applied, and I should note that a nearby boat that had a professional roll-n-tip finish applied is better, but too much.
There are several pro-applied LPU repaints, with no clear coating. They are about a ten foot surface, and their original shine was a five foot surface for the first five seasons.

Thing is, what we are all buying, IMO, is time, and protection of the substrate. Once the original molded gel coat surface is thinned too much by UV wear, you have to pick something... to again cover the laminate and restore some "looks".
Or, have a power boat that can park under a roof!

Speaking of renewing the surface, several boats have also had major repairs finished up by spraying on new gel coat, and then sanding and polishing it out. This is actually a pretty good solution, but is labor intensive. OTOH, it does shine pretty darned well for about a decade.

It's hard to beat the original "mirror shine" of new gel coat out of a properly polished mold. Only thing with more reflectivity is the buffed-out clearcoatings.

IF.... new molded out gel coat is kept waxed and protected faithfully, it can still retain good shine for 20 years and more. UV is the -mortal- enemy, and boats exposed full time in southern latitudes will see the most surface gel coat erosion. Well applied gel coat from a quality builder is good to have--- we have some early-70's Ericson's and Cal's in our moorage with the dark color inner layers starting to show thru in a lot of little places, more on the south-facing side.
This is one appearance thing that suppresses the retail value of the majority of boats built in that era. While strength might be OK, shoppers are put off by the worn & discolored look. (boats in the Great Lakes where they are covered or stored thru the winters fare a lot better in this regard.)

Sidebar: as an example of how bad an amateur effort can actually be, some years ago while considering a move up, we took a day trip up to view an inexpensive early-80's E-38 in Puget Sound. When we got there, contrary to the glowing description by the seller, we found that the whole deck had been painted, really, with a coarse brush - like a broom. Paint on the hardware edges, too. It was amazing and depressing. There really was no reasonable price we could pay, given the level of restoration needed. The seller would have had to pay us at least 20K to take it away, IF the motor ran (almost invisible under a layer of oily dirt).
OTOH, we have never seen anything else that bad before or since..... :(

All that said, and it's probably too much said, when you have a "good old boat" and are willing to do all the prep work, a carefully-applied paint job by a careful owner will indeed restore it by 75% at least. Getting it back to where it passes the "ten foot test" is a huge step up. You might get by for well under 1 or 2K in total materials cost, and the improvement will be gratifying. Very much so. :)
How about vinyl wrapping the boat? I've read a bit about it but have never seen it in person. But it would be an option to look at. It's much cheaper than an LP job and easily renewed. It might not hold up as well to docking mishaps on the one hand, but is supposedly repaired easily on the other. It's probably not best to to it as a DIY thing, though. Anyway, just more grist for the mill.

As for protecting the substrate: The gelcoat on my 84 isn't too bad, which is impressive considering that the boat is 37 years old--and in Southern California, no less! That's one of the reasons I bought it 12 years ago. Right now I've switched to using Smoove on the hull and cabin, which is a polymer sealant. So far I like the results, and it should hold up longer than wax. We'll see if that proves true.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
There is a good thread on this site about "wrapping" with vinyl. Tom (our painter) and I discussed it off handedly. He worries that it might not last and look good over 7 to 10 years. Those big engine ski boats with this are a species that lives mostly under cover on a trailer when not out blasting their "music" at high levels and towing people on skis and boards. Being outside in the UV full time might shorten their useful life. Last year one of the UK sailing mags did an article on it, focusing on sailboats; they had no long term results comments to include, tho.
 

saphira36

Member II
Are we all just going to let the Meatloaf reference slide?

Aside from that poor taste I appreciate the topic even though it's a repeat. I've got to consider the same for my boat. My plan is to talk to the club guys and see if I can test techniques/materials on the various dock boxes and dingy's we have laying around. According to the Don Casey book (for whatever that's worth) a 2 part polymer epoxy paint rolled on can look VERY good. The trick is, as Bigd said, getting the ratio right and it'll vary with each batch as temperature and humidity change. I suspect even the best application will still benefit greatly from a bit of polish work after it cures.

From my car painting days I'll double down on the prep comments. Prep, prep, prep! If the prep is done well there's a ton of improvement you can make with post painting work. If the prep is done poorly then it'll look bad no matter how much post painting work you put into it.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I was a-scared of multi-part paints until I watched a painter do my transom, and then another painter do the deck of the boat next door. It didn't seem beyond the average ability. Roll and tip was their method, and no different from me rolling and tipping Brightside onto a dinghy, or boom, or even the bilges. You roll the paint out, then erase the bubbles with a light brush stroke or two, and move on to the next two-foot section. A little practice on a piece of glass and you've got it.

But as has been said, prep is everything--it has to be a real commitment. Glossy deck paint hugely magnifies imperfections.

The painter who did the E38 next to me left all hardware in place, and carefully taped everything. Looks new a year later. He painted the stock metal portlights, and they look great. He also painted the chromed (i.e., formerly shiny) deck fitting for the E38 port-side dorade. Not a good idea, it's peeling already.

I think it's a viable project for those inclined.
 

David Grimm

E38-200
I rolled and rolled my transom last week. Tipping with the brush wasn't working out for me. It was very dry and windy at the yard. I used the Pettit polyurethane paint. If you see an imperfection late just leave it. Once this paint sets for a minute you can't go back without messing it up. Also if it's humid don't paint. This paint doesn't dry hard in the first place and humidity just makes it worse. All in all I give it a B+ If I were doing any more than just the transom I think I would have it professionally sprayed with an automotive quality paint that dries hard and is immune to gasoline, diesel and other boat chemicals.
 

Attachments

  • 20210428_170714.jpg
    20210428_170714.jpg
    152.3 KB · Views: 31
  • 20210428_170722.jpg
    20210428_170722.jpg
    290.9 KB · Views: 31

Gaviate

Member III
Cannot report on paint just yet but I did collect 32 lbs of sanding waste(?) with shopvac, from hull portion below waterline. 14.5 hours, over 2 day schedule and burned out one shopvac and one orbital sander. I counted 9 layers (one of them was mine) and think I am now at original gelcoat, just below is raw fiberglass so that's as far as I'm going. Next weekend she gets 2 coats of Total Boat primer/barrier combination paint after some fairing work....I may have gotten a little aggressive towards the end :)
 

frick

Member III
I would roll and tip two part Polyurethane paint. Use it on my last boat and it was like painting with water, it flowed on and was dry to the touch in 30 minutes.
 

racushman

O34 - Los Angeles
Don Casey has a wonderful section on applying 2 part polyurethanes with the roll-and-tip method in his book "This Old Boat". Available on Amazon is the best $50 I've spent in a while.

Upshot: results come down to prep, basic application technique, and thinning carefully.
 
Top