Life's a bilge and then you dry (E381....with images)

[DrZiplock]

Hey, folks

I'll likely turn this into a blog post at some point, but wanted to share some ongoing bilge/keel bolt work and check with the hive mind on a few things.

First up, we all know that a clean bilge is a happy bilge. Respira did not come with a clean bilge. She's been sitting on the hard with a few too many leaks and the pumps off for far too long. The accumulated debris was a sigh to behold - so to work I went.

Here's where we started:


Standing water, filth, and three sad and busted pumps.


Here's the forward most bilge where the shower was draining. Which is something that I fully plan on doing away with. Living aboard with shower water in the bilge is a no go for me.


Whilst cleaning and scrubbing I found this little, um, repair/patch(?) job that the previous owner left in.


They epoxied the ever loving hell out of this washer and nut, and it took a finger belt sander to actually reach the hardware.

Onward I go.

I wanted to pull the nuts, split rings, and washers to inspect all of them and the bolts and I am very glad that I did. Here is a sample of what the washers were looking like:


I'm no washerologist, but that is not good. It looks like the split ring has been slowly chewing through the washer over time. Most of the nuts I could actually loosen by hand which was another thing that gave me pause. I bought new 316 stainless washers that will work, but upon thinking about it am going to go in another direction. For all the sets of double keel bolts I'm going to use a stainless bracket that spans them both and then tighten down with locknuts. The brackets are being made by a fabricator as we speak. I have 3M 4000 that I'll use to seal/bed them down with.


Anywhere, here's what happens when you scrub with bleach, GooGone, sand, acetone wipe, and then hit with a coat of Total Boat Bilge Paint (with another coat or two happening soon):


Questions in the next post.

 

[DrZiplock]

#1 Anyone ever replace the hoses that feed from the pumps overboard? How much of a struggle will I be in for?

#2 There are holes and places where holes used to be...little help on IDing what they are for? They are super low in the bilge and honestly pretty concerning because they would have been taking on water while she was sitting.






This one is particularly interesting (forward most bilge compartment) because you can see what appears to be a little built up block in the corner)


The holes that are close to the bottom in those shots don't have counterparts on the other side of the support...so not conduits.

There is also this little guy who I don't have the plug for (it's threaded on the exterior) and was considering making an intake for a through hull...unless that's an awful idea.



Anyway, that's my bilge brain dump so far.

Thanks!

 

[Kenneth K]

About those "holes" in the bilge....

You'll hear lots of comments and lots of opinions. Here's just one:

A boat would typically have a (single) bilge. This would be the lowest part of the boat where water collects and then can be pumped out from. Ericsons with TAFGs have several bilge sections. If each bilge section is connected with every other section via limber holes near the bottom of each section, then a hull leak in any part of the boat can be handled by any bilge pump in any bilge section. In effect, you've then created single, common bilge. This is important when you consider the effectiveness of the manual whale gusher pump--it should be able to remove water from any part in the bilge as it may be the only pump you have if you are without electrics.

For various reasons, people sometimes wish to isolate certain bilge sections from others (especially the shower bilge and the bilge that collects water from the mast). If you isolate a bilge section, it must have it's own pump to empty it, and likewise, pumping that bilge section dry will not lower the water level in other parts of the boat (including the both other bilge sections and the under-TAFG areas between each bilge section).

However, even if certain bilge sections are isolated (via plugs or the absence of limber holes near the bottom), water will eventually flow into/out-of these isolated sections when (1) the water level gets near the bottom of the sole, where there are many open wire-carrying conduits between bilge sections, or (2) When water rises above the sole--at this point, the sole becomes the common collection point allowing any pump in any bilge section (isolated or not) to dewater the boat.

Nice job on the cleanup and paint!

 

[Stuphoto]

Replacing those hoses is on my short term list.
I think it's 49 years old on my boat and I just don't trust it much.

My plan is to cheat by taping the new one to the old, along with the wires to a new bilge pump and just feed them through.

My hose seems to be loose in there, so I doubt it's connected to anything.

 

[Loren Beach]

Different model, but similar divided bilge sections due to a sort of "partial TAFG interior".

O34 - New Bilge Hose, April 2016

This year I replaced the cockpit manual bilge pump. I thought I could rebuild the old one, but the inside check valves were secured by ss screws into the alum. housing and would not budge. The hose had also been in there since the boat was built...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[DrZiplock]

Thanks for the thoughts, all

The holes that I'm questioning aren't the limber holes. You can see the limber holes in this shots, but I'm talking about the holes to nowhere.

 

[Kenneth K]

Call all the prior owners and ask them....

 

[Stuphoto]

The joys of owning an old sailboat.
Unless you owned it from day one, the chances are pretty good that someone has done some questionable repairs.

 

[Frank Langer]

On our 1984 E30+ we don't have the limber holes you've marked as such, but we do have holes like the one you marked with a ?, which on our boat serves the same function as limber holes. So I wonder if those holes were cut before another worker installed the actual limber holes? Just a thought...
Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

I'm pretty sure the mystery hole(s) is simply to drain the TAFG.

The structure traps water, an unfortunate legacy of its grid design. .

On my boat the factory inserted plastic caps on such holes, so they could be kept closed most of the time and opened only to drain.

Oh, and when you paint the bilge, don't paint the keel bolts. The steel needs air to maintain itself.

 

[Jerry VB]

There is also this little guy who I don't have the plug for (it's threaded on the exterior) and was considering making an intake for a through hull...unless that's an awful idea.

My speculation is that the PO drilled a drain hole from the bilge to prevent the bilge from filling to overflowing when the boat is on the hard and there is no power for bilge pumps. You often see water damage to the floorboards and cabinetry in boats that have been hauled and neglected.

Ref: Keep Your Bilge Dry with a Garboard Drain Plug

P.S. You can buy replacement plugs at WM and other marine stores.

 

[DrZiplock]

Exactly the info I needed, all. Thanks very much!

Looks like the mystery holes are just lacking plugs so I'll be picking up a few of those. Appreciate the shot of your own bilge, Christian. And no worries about not painting the bolts, they are all nice and taped up.

Jerry - great call about it being a garboard drain. It's pretty much what I assumed the function was but had never heard the term before. Considering placement in the boat I figured it's always worth the check. Now I can either get a plug that fits or make it a through hull for an AC or watermaker.

 

[Aquinomas]

I'm pretty sure the mystery hole(s) is simply to drain the TAFG.

The structure traps water, an unfortunate legacy of its grid design. .

On my boat the factory inserted plastic caps on such holes, so they could be kept closed most of the time and opened only to drain.

Oh, and when you paint the bilge, don't paint the keel bolts. The steel needs air to maintain itself.

View attachment 41730

Ok, I’m lost on TAFG. I’ve been wondering where this water comes from when I open those plugs.
what is TAFG meaning? Is it cause for concern?

 

[DrZiplock]

Ok, I’m lost on TAFG. I’ve been wondering where this water comes from when I open those plugs.
what is TAFG meaning? Is it cause for concern?

Not sure how helpful this will be to answer the questions - but it does give a pretty solid explanation of TAFG in relation to our boats:

How TAFG is constructed - manufacturer's description

I'm a little way into a keel-strike repair of my boat and blogging about it here. As this is a subject of general (and probably future owner) interest, I wanted to start a new forum thread. I e-mailed Gene Kohlman with a description of my problem and for any input on how the TAFG-hull bond...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Christian Williams]

 

[Kenneth K]

Now I can either get a plug that fits or make it a through hull for an AC or watermaker.

I'd conduct some due diligence before mounting a traditional through hull there. I don't think you'll find any places on the boat where a through hull penetrates the TAFG. My factory through hulls are all located in places where the TAFG is cut away. This allows the through hull "head" and the through hull backing plate to compress and seal firmly against the hull alone.

If penetrating the TAFG as well, you'd be wise to check for gaps between the TAFG and hull before clamping a through hull across the two.

 

[DrZiplock]

Also very good to know...thanks!