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Mandatory $9,000 fee in Marina del Rey coming
- Thread starter Gregoryulrich
- Start date
They don't work any of them on sailboats
The interesting thing is that if you look up the paints that are approved by the Port of San Diego, every single one of them explicitly state that they are not for use on boats that go less than 10 knots or are used less than once every two weeks at over 13 knots. (Except the Pettit offering which is not in production any more. Hmmm a 10 year pain that was only on the market for a year? Strange?).
The issue is that nothing is going to work to replace it. Of the paints they test some needed to have the bottom cleaned 36 times in the study, and they were rated as working better than copper bottom paint. I think latex housepaint would work if you cleaned the bottom every week and a half. That is not a working paint!
I would be the first person to sign up for a bottom paint that worked on a sailboat for 10 years. It would mean not hauling out in strange places with dodgy travel lifts. The fact is they don't exist, and the paint companies don't want them to exist. Before a local boat yard owner died he told me at length that everyone should have their bottom painted every year so that he could make money doing it. He also explained that was the goal of the yard when doing a bottom paint job, to have them come back the next year!
Flat out no one has yet made a paint that is non biocide that is going to work on our boats. So sealing in the copper with whatever you want is going to solve the issue for the port, but not any of the boating issues.
Guy
The interesting thing is that if you look up the paints that are approved by the Port of San Diego, every single one of them explicitly state that they are not for use on boats that go less than 10 knots or are used less than once every two weeks at over 13 knots. (Except the Pettit offering which is not in production any more. Hmmm a 10 year pain that was only on the market for a year? Strange?).
The issue is that nothing is going to work to replace it. Of the paints they test some needed to have the bottom cleaned 36 times in the study, and they were rated as working better than copper bottom paint. I think latex housepaint would work if you cleaned the bottom every week and a half. That is not a working paint!
I would be the first person to sign up for a bottom paint that worked on a sailboat for 10 years. It would mean not hauling out in strange places with dodgy travel lifts. The fact is they don't exist, and the paint companies don't want them to exist. Before a local boat yard owner died he told me at length that everyone should have their bottom painted every year so that he could make money doing it. He also explained that was the goal of the yard when doing a bottom paint job, to have them come back the next year!
Flat out no one has yet made a paint that is non biocide that is going to work on our boats. So sealing in the copper with whatever you want is going to solve the issue for the port, but not any of the boating issues.
Guy
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gulfcoaster
Member III
All this tells us is that
BIG government leads to over-regulation, higher taxes, and a bankrupt state. We're doing just fine here in Texas. The average cost for a nice marina is 7.50-9.50 per slip foot for a floating dock with security, clubhouse, swimming pool, and tennis courts. I pay 110.00 for a sticker which I display on the hull. It's good for 2 yrs. I pay an additional 15 bucks for another sticker which is required if I've got a permanent head onboard. I purchased my slip in 2004 for 22k. I pay 227 per month in maint. fees. I'm located in the Kemah area up in Galveston bay. I sure hope that 9k fee doesn't happen for you guys. Maybe they'll just grandfather all boats till they need another bottom job.
BIG government leads to over-regulation, higher taxes, and a bankrupt state. We're doing just fine here in Texas. The average cost for a nice marina is 7.50-9.50 per slip foot for a floating dock with security, clubhouse, swimming pool, and tennis courts. I pay 110.00 for a sticker which I display on the hull. It's good for 2 yrs. I pay an additional 15 bucks for another sticker which is required if I've got a permanent head onboard. I purchased my slip in 2004 for 22k. I pay 227 per month in maint. fees. I'm located in the Kemah area up in Galveston bay. I sure hope that 9k fee doesn't happen for you guys. Maybe they'll just grandfather all boats till they need another bottom job.
Rick R.
Contributing Partner
Obviously those proposing the Marina Del Ray fee are not friends of the boating community. Sounds like an opportunity for an apposing politician to gain a following. Rally time!
The Boat US article is interesting in that bottom scraping may be responsible for a large part of the problem. Maybe they can outlaw the scraping...
Ive spent 10 years involved with getting an OHV park established in my area in Florida. From land acquisition to environmental impact studies to actually cutting trails only to have our governor raid the fund set aside. The possible good news for you guys? If they decide to do this, it will hopefully take a long time to implement buying time for other ideas.
The government moves slowly, we still don't have our riding area! Good luck.
The Boat US article is interesting in that bottom scraping may be responsible for a large part of the problem. Maybe they can outlaw the scraping...
Ive spent 10 years involved with getting an OHV park established in my area in Florida. From land acquisition to environmental impact studies to actually cutting trails only to have our governor raid the fund set aside. The possible good news for you guys? If they decide to do this, it will hopefully take a long time to implement buying time for other ideas.
The government moves slowly, we still don't have our riding area! Good luck.
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Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
Ericson 27 For Sale!
Bottom paint stripping and Government approved non biocide Antifouling Paint job or best offer!
Bottom paint stripping and Government approved non biocide Antifouling Paint job or best offer!
One of the more interesting things about this.
The study did find that removal of the existing bottom paint was a significant financial impact for boat owners. So they received a $600,000.00 grant to offset the cost for any boaters that move to a non biocide paint.
If you are in San Diego and are going to be there for three years, then they will pay 75% of the cost to strip the boat. They will also pay a significant amount toward the cost of the new bottom paint. All you have to do is apply non biocide paint to the boat.
Here where it gets interesting. The 75% of the cost of stripping is paid directly to the boat yard doing the stripping. The paint reimbursement is paid to the owner of the boat. So far only 30 boats have signed up for the deal. Only 30 of over 2000.
This tells them something, but not what they want to see or hear so they don't see or hear it. The boat yard has a big time vested interest in selling the plan. Few people ever get their boats stripped back to gel coat. So this is a big job, and they can make money on it, so why are they not selling it? The boat yards are not selling the idea because they have done the risk assessment and ROI on the job. Sure they can be paid to strip the boat largely by the grant, and the owner has to select a new non biocide paint that they make at least 100% markup on. However when the owner comes back in 4 to 6 months and demands that they make this mess right, everyone is going to loose money. The boat owner is going to have to pay back all of the money in the grant, and the yard is going to loose a customer or multiple customers when he tells everyone he knows how bad he got screwed.
This is also after they have had multiple free seminars and events surrounding the plan and the offset money. They have had at least two and I think three major events with a lot of publicity to help push this better paint, and no one is buying it, or promoting it as a solution to the boats in the areas concerned.
The problem is that there are more problems than solutions here. The problem is there are no effective non biocide paints made. The solution so that you can "sport fish" in Ventura harbor, and the problem of not having barnacles covering your entire boat are at the moment non convergent problems.
Guy
The study did find that removal of the existing bottom paint was a significant financial impact for boat owners. So they received a $600,000.00 grant to offset the cost for any boaters that move to a non biocide paint.
If you are in San Diego and are going to be there for three years, then they will pay 75% of the cost to strip the boat. They will also pay a significant amount toward the cost of the new bottom paint. All you have to do is apply non biocide paint to the boat.
Here where it gets interesting. The 75% of the cost of stripping is paid directly to the boat yard doing the stripping. The paint reimbursement is paid to the owner of the boat. So far only 30 boats have signed up for the deal. Only 30 of over 2000.
This tells them something, but not what they want to see or hear so they don't see or hear it. The boat yard has a big time vested interest in selling the plan. Few people ever get their boats stripped back to gel coat. So this is a big job, and they can make money on it, so why are they not selling it? The boat yards are not selling the idea because they have done the risk assessment and ROI on the job. Sure they can be paid to strip the boat largely by the grant, and the owner has to select a new non biocide paint that they make at least 100% markup on. However when the owner comes back in 4 to 6 months and demands that they make this mess right, everyone is going to loose money. The boat owner is going to have to pay back all of the money in the grant, and the yard is going to loose a customer or multiple customers when he tells everyone he knows how bad he got screwed.
This is also after they have had multiple free seminars and events surrounding the plan and the offset money. They have had at least two and I think three major events with a lot of publicity to help push this better paint, and no one is buying it, or promoting it as a solution to the boats in the areas concerned.
The problem is that there are more problems than solutions here. The problem is there are no effective non biocide paints made. The solution so that you can "sport fish" in Ventura harbor, and the problem of not having barnacles covering your entire boat are at the moment non convergent problems.
Guy
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Lets keep the politics out of the discussion, the issue is one of the environmental controls in CA, not a comparison of Texas to California.
Thanks,
Guy
Wanted to call for a chill out, but that just comes out wrong for the East Coast...
So, just to soften up a discussion: we can't all move to Texas or your dock fee would be $17/foot, as it is in SF harbor
Guy, I am yet to find out anything on this subject for SF Bay... Did you pick up any news or rumors?
So, just to soften up a discussion: we can't all move to Texas or your dock fee would be $17/foot, as it is in SF harbor
Guy, I am yet to find out anything on this subject for SF Bay... Did you pick up any news or rumors?
Nothing Yet
Nothing Yet on SF bay, but it is coming, it is just a matter of time before it is everywhere in the state, and then the country. Washington state is doing it too.
The beauty of the Bay is that a lot more water comes in and out, and there is a bit more, not a lot more, flushing. Also the bay is so many different jurisdictions that getting it organized and sorted out is not going to be as easy as it was in San Diego, or Ventura, etc. This will buy us a little time. It will come though.
My hope is that the paint gets better before we get to it here in the bay, or all along the west coast. I have my doubts though, we have done this before; lets go back and look at what happened last time. We removed TBT out of the bottom paint, and it has never been as effective again.
Guy
Nothing Yet on SF bay, but it is coming, it is just a matter of time before it is everywhere in the state, and then the country. Washington state is doing it too.
The beauty of the Bay is that a lot more water comes in and out, and there is a bit more, not a lot more, flushing. Also the bay is so many different jurisdictions that getting it organized and sorted out is not going to be as easy as it was in San Diego, or Ventura, etc. This will buy us a little time. It will come though.
My hope is that the paint gets better before we get to it here in the bay, or all along the west coast. I have my doubts though, we have done this before; lets go back and look at what happened last time. We removed TBT out of the bottom paint, and it has never been as effective again.
Guy