New head - what type?

[Mikebat]

The Lavac Popular model seems like the way to go for a durable, low-maintenance head replacement. My current sanitation system is in need of overhaul, but I hate it and have wanted to replace it since I got the boat. Actually, it's just the toilet I hate. The sanitation system is fine. The toilet discharges into a holding tank, which can be either pumped out from the deck, or pumped overboard when legal to do so. There is no Y valve, and I like it that way.

So I just want to replace the toilet with a model that doesn't force you to pump your own solid bits through a piece of machinery. That means the choices are between a Lavac, which uses a vacuum to draw the material into the holding tank, or a electric macerator toilet of some type. What are you guys thoughts on the pros and cons?

If anyone knows a good marine plumber in the Los Angeles who I could hire to do this job...

 

[Glyn Judson]

Selecting a toilet.

Mike, I'm posting this strictly to generate thought about the entire effect of replacing your head. I know the Lavac and have seen it in heavy service on both Johnson tall ships in LA Harbor by hundreds if not thousands of kids and adults. As part of the after sail clean up, I've gotten head duty which includes swabbing the head area. In every case, that head worked flawlessly for me during that maintenance. But it seems to me that it takes A LOT of water to clear the bowl, something to consider aboard a smaller boat with limited holding tank capacity. You might want to contact several makers to see what numbers they can give in that area. It occurs to me that the same might be true with a macerator head where the tendency might be to leave the switch on too long to get the bowl 100% clear. Manual might end up being the most economical regarding holding tank capacity. What thoughts do others have on the subject? I'm using a manual Groco K-H directly to the holding tank with macerator for overboard discharge and deck fitting, no Y-valve either. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[chaco]

Love My Manual Head

Recently COMPLETELY OVERHAULED the entire Sanitary System on the E35II.
ReBuilt the Raritan PHII and am very happy with the operation and low water
usage. I use a series of 3-Way Valves to 1. Pump in to the new 13ga tank
2. Manual Pump directly overboard 3. Empty tank with Macerator overboard
4. Empty tank at PumpOut Station. I found that the Jabsco Y-Valves are
poorly designed and not a reliable ball valve as the ForeSpar Marelon 3-Way
Valve. Replaced ALL the Sanitary and Raw Water Hoses with Shields #148
PVC. A heat gun and silicon sealant is essential to working with this TOUGH
Hose :nerd: IMHO Electric Toilets are just another thing to fail on a small boat
A word to the wise....vent your Sanitary vented loop to a 1/2" thruhull above
the waterline with a loop in it for a trap. The little rubber check valves will
fail and FLOOD your boat with SEWAGE

Happy Flushing

 

[NateHanson]

I LOVED the lavac system on a baltic 38 I helped deliver a couple years ago. It was super simple, and while it uses fresh water to flush, it's less than a pint, if I recall correctly, so it saves holding tank space as well. Zero odor, approx 1 moving part in the head itself, and then an electric vacuum pump (but that's remote, and also quite simple). I'd install such a system in a heartbeat.

 

[u079721]

I've always felt the Raritan PHII that came with our E38 worked fine, and was pretty good with water use (important for not filling up the holding tank).

But another thought you might consider about heads is what it costs for a rebuild kit. At a time when the Raritan kit was about $25, my friend's head required a kit that was over $100! (Don't remember which one it was.) Of course, maybe his didn't need to be rebuilt as often, so maybe that evens out. I always assumed the worst would happen some night while at anchor, so I pro-actively rebuilt the head every spring just in case.

 

[exoduse35]

Tank recomendation?

Chaco, I read your post. It said you installed a new 13 gal tank into a 35-ll. as my boat is currently illegal and I need to install a tank to fix that any more info would be taken with much gratitude. thanks in advance Edd

 

[Ray Rhode]

I installed an electric macerator head in Journey and really liked it except for the NOISE. Everyone in the anchorage knew when you flushed.

Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189

 

[Rocinante33]

Mike,

Get a copy of the new issue of Practical Sailor. They have an article about the Raritan compared with Jabsco heads. They didn't test the Lavac because of space issues on the boat they were using, but it sounds good from what they did say about it. I sounds like you need to check dimensions if considering Lavac, but the pump can be mounted away from the bowl, so it should be doable.

The article makes me want to dump my old Wilcox Crittindon that leaks from the pump.

 

[Mikebat]

I raised the issue of water use with the Lavac people, and he pointed out that the bowl isn't where most of the flush volume is, it's the hose leading to the holding tank that must be fully flushed that consumes most of the water volume. That won't change much by going to a different type of toilet.

He said their toilet uses 3-4 pints for a flush in a typical installation. My holding tank is 6 gallons, I think, so that works out to optimistically 12-16 flushes before it is full.

 

[Guy Stevens]

The Lavac is the only way to go.

They just work, they work well, they don't use that much water.

I have tried them all, including the Blakes head, which should be gold plated for what they cost.

Guy

 

[vbenn]

Lavac

I installed a Lavac Popular last year after the new Jabsco Compact needed several joker valve replacements in 1 season. In addition to the fact that it simply works well, we like the idea that when flushing with raw bay water, there is no smell like there is with the Jabsco. The hand pump works well. We have had some trouble installing and getting the recommended electric pump to work - - it keeps clogging with toilet paper. Also, the Lavac people have not worked out a an automatic switch design yet for the electric pump.

If you want an electric model which you simply install and use, then I would nor recommend the Lavac. If you are content with a manual pump toilet, Lavac can't be beat.

Vince Benn
Wild Blue
E-380

 

[chaco]

Toilet Paper Down Head ?

One of the FIRST things I was taught as a Sailor is DO NOT put Toilet Paper
down the the Head on these delicate little machines
Toilet Paper is carefully wrapped in more Toilet Paper and Stored in a second
container for proper disposal. I use a plastic coffee can with lid and sanitize
with bleach solution. The Head is one thing you do not want to CLOG UP
and have to work on while sailing :nerd:
I know the Lavac is a good product.....but I have heard HORROR STORIES
of Owners working to un-clog them with use from inexperienced crew putting
wierd things down them like paper towels

Happy Flushing

 

[WBurgner]

Photos?

Vince,
I would like to install a Lavac system on my E381. Can you provide photos of the pump install? I am trying to determine if there is room for the manual pump.

Thanks

 

[footrope]

Single ply TP

We use the single ply SeaLand toilet paper and it goes down the throat of our Groco HF very easily. We tried 2-ply but we definitely had problems with that hanging up in the pump. We never had to disassemble it to clear it, but it took extra water and effort.

We had our first manual pump maintenance 'event' this past year on our cruise when the piston & ring assembly finally unscrewed itself from the pump shaft. Fortunately we only had to deal with liquids in the bowl, and the gaskets and check valves were in good shape. Good pump design for taking it apart to clear problems or screw on the piston. The Groco diagram we carry around in our document library was very helpful. Next time I'll do it as planned maintenance. We have no 'Y' valve and a manual overboard pump.

We're pretty happy with our manual head. Having confidence in your largest porcelain fixture is important if you're going to get the most out of your cruising boat.

Do the electric potties have manual backup (a pun!) if the motor or power fails? The vacuum type flush sounds intriguing - I didn't realize they were available for boats. Another boat show quest. They work great on airliners!

Good luck, Mike.

 

[u079721]

All this talk of toilet models reminds me of another aspect of my "Delivery From Hell" last year from Ft. Lauderdale to St. Thomas. The skipper had installed some super fancy head with an electric vacuum flush. You would do your business, then close the lid with it's rubber air tight seal all around, then push the button and hold it for about 4 seconds to start the vacuum flush. This flush would take about 20 seconds, after which it took about another 30 seconds for the vacuum to dissapate enough to be able to lift the lid. Now this is important, becuase if you try to lift the lid before the vacuum is gone you can damage the seal.

This last part only matters because the flush process left quite a bit of water in the bowl - so much so that it could slosh out when underway in any kind of a sea, which we had quite a bit of on our 1400 mile trip. So our instructions were to press the button, wait during the flush, wait during the vacuum break, and then lift the lid, and repeat the flush with the lid open, which would suck out all the water and leave the bowl dry. Then (and only then) once the second flush cycle was done would we again close the lid so that it would not be damaged by slamming shut as the boat rolled.

Which may not sound like much. But when you are feeling a bit sick, ANY time spent down below can be hell, especially in the head, on a boat that is closed up tight with little ventilation, in the tropics. The last thing you wanted to do was wait around for all that damed vacuum flush nonsense! As it turned out the sink in the head actually let in a fair amount of fresh air though the drain as the boat would roll. So I have vivid memories of waiting for the damn vacuum to dissapate, braced up against the bulkhead in the head, with the boat rolling and pitching like mad, with my head deep in the sink trying to suck up some fresh air, and trying not to vomit yet again.

Yup, those sure are some great memories.

 

[Emerald]

Hi Steve,

As I read your post, I just can't help but feel reinforced that pumping the old lever up and down a few times on an "old-fashioned" head just makes so much sense for 99.9% of real world use.

 

[vbenn]

lavac

Bill:

I'll be happy to take pictures of the pumps in the spring when we commission the boat. The manual pump is located in the locker under the sink and the electric pump is in the locker behind the toilet. By the way, we only use marine grade toilet paper.

Vince

 

[WBurgner]

May not be able to wait

Thanks Vince,
I may need to replace the WC unit before your thaw, but would appreciate the chance to see your install when you get the chance to take the shots.

At present there are three thru hulls under the sink as well as an air conditioning outlet. Pretty crowded. Behind the toilet is the overboard pump. I should point out that the 381 has the head on port side forward adjacent to the v-birth. Not sure of your configuration.

 

[John Wressell]

We've had a Lavac Popular on two boats and couldn't recommend it more highly.