New Member here looking for input on a 38-200 purchase

[dhowmann]

Hello - New member here. I've got an appointment to look at a 1987 38-200 this weekend. Owner passed away and, per the marina, it's been there for years (& hasn't moved in a while). All I know is that it's got new sails (incl'g an asymmetric spinnaker on a dedicated roller furler) and the engine was replaced in 2012 & has only a couple hundred hours on it, though I can't tell what it is from the pic (see attached ... possibly another used Universal?).
It's also got in-mast furling, which I can't decide is a plus (I'm 67 yo) or a minus (oops, I can't get it back in!). I can share more about it when I meet the seller and visit the boat but any red flags specific to 38's I want to look for? Seller's asking $30K.
I mostly cruise solo and plan to take some extended trips up and down the west coast. Hawaii & Baja might also be in the cards.
Thanks!

 

[ConchyDug]

The red exhaust riser indicates it's a Westerbeke and somebody did a silver rattle can job on it... probably recently to make it presentable for selling. That would make me dig more on the engine. Having in mast furling on a 38 is strange indicates a new mast was installed, unless it's one of those external retrofit kits. In mast furling would be a deal breaker for me, not a fan. If you can tolerate the shortcomings of it, then whatever it's a choice. Looks like a lot of water is getting in the boat thru leaks judging by the water damage on the wood. Also, "new" sails is a relative term and usually flat wrong. Search Ericson 38 survey on this site or Google and you'll get a ton of specific model info.

 

[Joliba]

It might be difficult to get a history of this boat without the previous owner. But it would be good to know why the engine and mast were replaced.
As for specific red flags on the ‘87 38-200, I would check the keel/hull junction. Several of these boats of that age have required dropping the keel due to a manufacturing error. Mold releaser wax was mistakenly not removed before those keels were mated to the keel root.
The original electrical panel wiring also was not great. If this has not been upgraded, you might need to do that.
Otherwise, the usual careful boat survey, in and out of the water, as you may have done with previous boat purchases, is appropriate. A boat that has been neglected for a long time surely will require a number of “projects.”(Projects=time+money.)
You will also probably need to make a few modifications to facilitate single-handed long-distance cruising.
From the photos the cabin sole clearly could use some work or perhaps replacement.
I am very happy with the 38-200 we have sailed since purchasing her in 2008.

 

[dhowmann]

Thanks Doug, Mike ... Done a little more image searching and it looks like that's a Universal M-35B, which didn't start production until after this boat was built but probably not available as a "new" replacement in 2012. They were silver, so not sure this one's been painted, but I guess I'll be able to confirm much of this tomorrow. I've asked seller to bring paperwork/receipts that might not be on the boat when I visit ... if there are any. Appreciate the tips. Finger's crossed (but eyes wide open).

 

[Drewm3i]

Looks decent--probably more like a 15-20K boat in its current shape (in need of a haul out and refit) though.

 

[Loren Beach]

Having never heard of in-mast furling on that model, it would be good to have a rigger assess the installation. Someone might have ordered it up with a custom spar ($$$) when new, and Ericson used to do all sorts of $$$ custom touches for their customers.

 

[peaman]

The engine looks very similar to my Universal M25XPB which was installed in 2020 by the previous owner. My engine is painted silver as well, but more distinctively is the location of the raw water pump. The picture also appears to include a Sherwood raw water pump. I replaced my original Sherwood with an Oberdorfer. A leaking seal on the Sherwood will allow salt water to get into the ball bearings where rust may make repair difficult, whereas the Oberdorfer has a carbon sleeve for a bearing and doesn't require removal of the pump for a simple impeller check, as does the Sherwood.

 

[dhowmann]

Yeah, peaman, it's the 4-cyl version of that (M-35B or 40B) but there's no documentation or receipts that I could find on the boat and engine hours aren't available (& it does intermittently rattle like marbles in a tin can). I suspect it was used when a PO replaced the original, given the production dates on those and seller indicating it was done in 2012. Loren Beach - I think you might be right. Original or not though, I think the in-mast furler might be a show-stopper for me (though it did work when I visited the boat). Drewm3i - was hoping it might not have been as rough as the pics seemed to indicate. The sails ARE new (including a spinnaker on a Profurl that mounts to a custom retractable sprit) and the standing rigging looks good (seller, a dock mate who's showing the boat and knew the owner, thought it was replaced in 2017 and recent rigging survey he said looked good but I didn't see it in my scan of the docs that were there ... mostly pre-2017 PO papers). PROS: no soft spots on the deck, hull & rigging looked good, barely-used Precision main & jib in very good shape (see pic), furling spinnaker in bag on deck looked good, 8 or 9 self-tailing winches in good working order and serviceable running rigging (though everything's stiff from lack of use), steering quadrant and rudder were in good shape, transmission worked well, keel bolts I was able to see looked good. CONS: Interior woodwork will need to be thoroughly cleaned and refinished (it's damp, moldy & stained), ditto the cabin sole (though it felt solid underfoot everywhere), all cushions and mattresses will need to be replaced and there's a lot of unfinished electrical projects that looked as though they were in progress (owner was a retired electrician - switch panel had been replaced/re-wired but not all electronics worked, including helm instruments and electric windlass), anchor was nicked (no security at the marina and it's had a problem with thefts) so it'll need a new one, lack of documentation, no engine hours, engine noise (might just be belts?), and I'd want to replace all the plastic thru-hulls. If I wasn't looking for something that was a little more turn-key, I might be more interested but, yeah Drewm3i, $20k seems more in line with what this boat would need to get to that.

 

[southofvictor]

Lack of documentation - do you mean on the engine or the boat? Either way, it sounds like it’s quite a ways shy of a turnkey boat if that’s what you’re looking for. Depending on what work you hired vs what you did yourself you could put $20k and a lot of hours into it just on cleanup and basics not counting any new surprises along the way. A furling main seems like a big complication on a 38’ boat. Why replace
the through-hulls, are they cracked or damaged? That’ll add more time & $$$.
That said we love our 38-200, and I think it’s a great hull for the kind of sailing we like to do. If you decide to take it on or have any specific questions about the model let me know.

 

[dhowmann]

Lack of documentation - do you mean on the engine or the boat?

Heh ... both. I might be willing to take on the general cleanup and fit/finish of the interior as well as complete the electrical work for the right price (at least I'd know how it was done ... nothing's labelled on the switch panel), but the 2 things that give me pause are the unknown engine history and that furling main. I didn't realize this till I saw it, but a third of the mast's circumference just above the boom is just "open" to make this work, not to mention what happens if it jams in a bad situation.
My spidey sense is telling me to keep looking. I don't think this boat's really been sailed much in the last decade and the potential for surprises seems real.
As for plastic thru-hulls, maybe I'm old school but ... plastic? Marelon would be fine but these are not Marelon. I didn't look for cracks 'cuz they'd all come out on the first haul out.
Besides the deferred maintenance, interior refurb and unfinished electrical work, it will need an anchor (actually, 2), a dinghy & outboard and, for my intended use at least, a life raft and wind vane (a Cape Horn would be nice on this boat ... Christian's is pretty sweet). Or I could just wait for one with a known engine and slab-reefed main that costs $50k more with most if not all those boxes checked and I'd be done for about the same price. Maybe a different 38-200? I like what I've read about the 38s and prefer the 200 layout best (aft cabin & head, and dedicated shower).
I do have a (perhaps stupid) question though: How do you access the keel bolts? I was only able to see the 2 in the bilge pump well. Do you need to mod the sole (can you?) to be able to do that? Thanks!

 

[Loren Beach]

As for plastic thru-hulls, maybe I'm old school but ... plastic? Marelon would be fine but these are not Marelon. I didn't look for cracks 'cuz they'd all come out on the first haul out.

Back in the 80's Ericson used Forespar Marelon for actual sea cocks, but did attach unreinforced plastic fittings on top sometimes. I have never heard of EY using a cast plastic fitting for an actual thru hull -- that would not pass any survey.
As for keel bolts and access, there are references to them on this site, and having visited aboard a 38-200, I note that the aft-most bolt can be challenging to get at.

If you have pix of the sea cocks on the boat in question, please post them.
Thanks.

Apropos of whatever, I replaced all of the OEM Forespar thru hulls and seacocks in our boat in the 90's. New design Marelon at the time, and nowadays there are viable alternatives in composite. And if you love bronze, you could replace with those, as an alternative.

 

[bigd14]

the potential for surprises seems real.

I have recently updated my Law of Threes (boat projects cost 3x more and take 3x as long as you think) to add that there will also be 3x the number of problems you think.

For example, while simply tracing hose runs, I discovered a leaking hot water heater fitting, a leaking diesel hose feeding the cabin heater, and that the coolant overflow tank was filled with sludge, which meant that several types of coolant had been mixed and necessitated an engine flush. None of these issues were identified during the survey, which was done by one the most thorough and thoughtful surveyors in town.

In short, you are wise to be cautious!

 

[frick]

I Live in thin water on the East Coast of NC. The draft on the 38 is too deep for me.
our Friend Angel sailed his 38 from NY to the Caribbean and beyond. The deep Draft Served him well.

 

[Christian Williams]

I've never seen a furling mast on an E38. Or such an ugly batten and roach-free sail. But they're certainly popular on newer boats.

If E38 continues to interest you, I suggest not eliminating the 381 belowdecks configuration. Both interiors have tradeoffs. Anyhow, a choice between cabin layouts would be unusual, given limited availability in local markets, and every other element of boat condition is much more important.

 

[u079721]

We loved our 1989 E-38, but we did have our share of problems. As mentioned above, the non-removal of the mold release caused our keel/hull joint to leak terribly, so we had to pay to have the keel dropped and rebedded. Ours also suffered from terrible boat pox, that even recurred after having the gel coat peeled, twice. And we had some type of subsidence, with the hull deforming while in the water and the triaxial pan sagging. This last issue manifested itself by keeping the door to the front cabin from closing, and the cabinetry in the galley to pull away from the grid. So those issues would be first on my list of things to examine and look for. I don't think anyone mentioned the stove yet - is it the original CNG unit, or has someone replaced it with a propane version? I liked the safety of CNG, but getting refills was a hassle years ago - I can't imagine what it would be like now.

 

[southofvictor]

Probably best to keep looking.
Keel bolts on our 38-200:
1 forward of mast step
2 under forward end of mast step
2 under aft end of mast step
2 under inboard forward part of port side settee
2 under inboard aft part of port side settee
2 under forward end of helmet cabinet
1 under aft end of galley cabinet

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@southofvictor
Please forgive the thread drift, but . . . "helmet cabinet"?!

 

[southofvictor]

Man I need to watch my clumsy thumbs……I meant galley cabinet.
Wait though, shouldn’t an Ericson have a helmet cabinet?

 

[Drewm3i]

We loved our 1989 E-38, but we did have our share of problems. As mentioned above, the non-removal of the mold release caused our keel/hull joint to leak terribly, so we had to pay to have the keel dropped and rebedded. Ours also suffered from terrible boat pox, that even recurred after having the gel coat peeled, twice. And we had some type of subsidence, with the hull deforming while in the water and the triaxial pan sagging. This last issue manifested itself by keeping the door to the front cabin from closing, and the cabinetry in the galley to pull away from the grid. So those issues would be first on my list of things to examine and look for. I don't think anyone mentioned the stove yet - is it the original CNG unit, or has someone replaced it with a propane version? I liked the safety of CNG, but getting refills was a hassle years ago - I can't imagine what it would be like now.

Man, sounds like you had an E-38 lemon...

 

[u079721]

Man, sounds like you had an E-38 lemon...

Well I tried not to think of it that way...but it did seem as if we had more than our share of issues on a boat that was only five years old when we bought her. I have to say though that every August when we spent four weeks aboard cruising the North Channel of Lake Huron all of the issues went away and we had wonderful times. None of the issues affected her sailing, and she did look beautiful - especially at anchor. The biggest hit was my pocketbook paying for the yard repairs!