Older Ericson 38

[Anny]

I'm looking for some guidelines to help establish a value for an early 80's Ericson 38. For the most part, she is completely original; has had the bottom cleaned on a regular basis but hasn't been hauled for a very long time. I'm sure she needs new rigging, a new headsail for sure and not sure about the main. I think it's going to need some electrical and plumbing work. I don't think the engine starts, and even if it does, I'm sure it needs work.

I found one site (can't remember what it was now) that indicated the 'low retail' is around $28,000. This seems like a very steep price for a sailboat that needs so much work. Knowing that many items will need to be replaced before being able to actually enjoy sailing, it seems that half of this 'low retail' figure is more appropriate.

So, with that little bit said, how does one decide 'What is a fair price to pay?', and still being realistic and reasonable without being insulting?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[Loren Beach]

How Much? It, um, Depends

Difficult to put a $ amount on a boat in a recession. Against that, spring is about here and prices always firm up from now on into mid summer. And, aside from that, larger boats tend to have less seasonal price swing because buyers are more "serious" even though there are fewer of 'em.
Lots of words... to say... Not much...


I cannot imagine a sail-able E-38 going for less than about 30K to 35K. As you've pointed out, deferred maintenance does add up. I guess that if it were me, I would try not to be into it more than about 50K, with adding the repairs to the purchase price.

Keep us posted, and please do post up any pictures that you have of the boat.

Oh yeah, one other point -- it's usually a "plus" to find a one owner or two owner boat of that age. Every owner in sucession seems to raise the chance of later finding dumb gear installs or dumb gear removals.

Have you looked through the ads for similar boats on the 'net? The old "rule of thumb" was that most boats actually sell for 90% of the listing price. The last several years it might be 25%less !
A legitimate yacht broker will also have access to their password-protected "sold boat price reporting" from all the other brokers. This will be as accurate as the reportage that goes into it, but it's good data to know.

Happy shopping,
Loren

 

[Lucky Dog]

WelcomeYou have come to the right place. There is enough information here to help you with any questions. I spent a month of Sunday nights reading everything I could find on e35II. There several 38 owners here and a lot of DIY ers.FWIW 1980 is not considered "old" here. Again, welcomeml

 

[dwigle]

We've had our 38 for around 8 years. When we got her, she was sailable, but not everything was as I'd like it. By now I've done just about everything you listed and more, except the engine. If the engine is toast, a new one will be a bunch of money. Figure around $10,000 for the engine plus whatever is needed for installation and labor if you have it installed. The rest of it is maintenance, but can get expensive, around $2000 for rigging, a couple more for a jib and you'll find lots more. The 28,000 figure sounds low if the engine is ok, but if it needs major work, it might not be far off. Another weak point is the cabin sole, I've seen and heard of a few that are spongy and needed replacing.

Don Wigle
Wiggle Room
E38 #8
Pt. Richmond, CA

 

[PDX]

Just did a quick look at Yachtworld Ericson 38s listed. They ranged from a high of $80,000+ to a low of $40,000. I have noticed some listed at well into the 100s in the past. The $40,000 boat, a 1984 model, carries a "sold" sign. Here is a link to photos and description of that particular boat that you could compare with the one you're interested in.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...628/Brooklin/ME/United-States&boat_id=2441628

 

[rwthomas1]

I have about $40+K into my E38 above what I paid for it. That means I'll own it forever or take a huge loss on it. A boat with a load of deferred maintenance will cost a bundle to make right. If you are decent at DIY then you can save a bundle, but save is a relative thing. You still have to spend the money and come up with the time to work on it. I'm lucky, or stupid enough to have both. You have to want the boat. Its a hobby, a lifestyle, a passion, whatever, but if you start really looking at the money, no sane person would ever buy a boat.

You'll buy it for $25K, put $30K into it and it will be worth $45K, if you are lucky and still need another $10K-$15K to get it where you want it. Or you spend $50K-$60K upfront and skip some of the angst to get where you want.

RT

 

[exoduse35]

Rob almost got it right. Even if you find the PERFECT boat in the perfect condition. It will in short order become less than perfect and need something moved, removed, replaced, upgraded, or used as an anchor. Boats are a work of art, each unique and beautiful, but like the Mona Lissa forever unfinished. There is much to be said for getting a boat as close to perfect as you can as making it perfect can get pricey, but the perfect boat can only be purchased with funds found at the end of the rainbow! Edd

 

[PDX]

Used boat buying strategies

1. Buy a really old boat at the bottom of its resale value curve and start over, completely rebuilding.

2. Buy a 20-30 year old boat whose previous owner performed regular upgrades and maintenance.

3. Buy a 15-20 year old boat.

Of these strategies the most expensive is 1., although if the rebuild project takes a lot of time the money will not be spent all at once. The biggest advantage is that you can build a custom boat to suit your individual needs and taste (within the size and performance limitations of the original design). But unless you really enjoy this kind of work, and have a lot of time to devote to it, this is not a good idea.

IMO the least expensive is probably 2. The boat might go for 20 to 50% more than an indifferently maintained boat, but the prior owner will not get back all of the money he has put into upgrades and maintenance.

3. might seem like the safest, most prudent course, but this is near the top of the boat's resale value curve (particularly if it is a popular model) yet the timing coincides with the point at which systems start to wear out. In other words, you are in the position the prior owner in 2. above was ten years earliler. Only this way, you get to spend the money.

 

[exoduse35]

Strategy #4 Find boat where strategy 1 was used and the latest owner greatly underestimated the time and is now too old to enjoy the fruits of starting over, or the cost and is now willing to take a bath to have you finish the job! This is admittedly the rarest but they are out there. These boats were often built much stronger and with better craftsmanship and material than can be found in today's production boats. However the materials are still modern and the performance is good. Also the flaws inherent in any particular design are well known and can be chosen to deal with, or avoided. I am sure there are many, many more. It boils down to: Find a good boat, research it well, inspect it carefully, be prepared to spend both time and money to make it the boat that is perfect for you and your needs, and pay a only a reasonable price for a good value. Edd

 

[PDX]

Strategy #4 Find boat where strategy 1 was used and the latest owner greatly underestimated the time and is now too old to enjoy the fruits of starting over, or the cost and is now willing to take a bath to have you finish the job! This is admittedly the rarest but they are out there. These boats were often built much stronger and with better craftsmanship and material than can be found in today's production boats. However the materials are still modern and the performance is good. Also the flaws inherent in any particular design are well known and can be chosen to deal with, or avoided. I am sure there are many, many more. It boils down to: Find a good boat, research it well, inspect it carefully, be prepared to spend both time and money to make it the boat that is perfect for you and your needs, and pay a only a reasonable price for a good value. Edd

Your post reminds me of an ad I saw back when the recession first hit, about 2008 or so. From memory, the ad was for a brand new owner finished Cascade 36, including spars, engine, equipment, and instruments, for $12,000. Neither the engine nor the rig had been installed but everything else had been. This is an example of the situation you discuss, in which scrutiny of the PO's work would make the difference between a fantastic buy on one end or a terrible mistake on the other. The potential upside was quite high. Had the PO done great work, even hiring out the engine install and rigging job, trucking, yard fees, and launch you would still have a brand new, better than factory quality, 36 foot boat for less than $50,000.

For those unfamiliar with the Cascade 36, it was an owner finished CCA design with a product run from the late 1960s to the mid 2000s. Think smaller, narrower, better built Cal 40. It handicaps in the 150s and still dominates its class in local races, offshore and inshore both.

 

[rwthomas1]

At this particular point in time, the economy is playing a large factor in pricing. Its a buyers market, hands down, and there are deals to be had. In some sectors, aviation for example, I've seen prices drop 30%-50% from what they were 3 years ago. Asking prices are just that, "no reasonable offer refused" means lowball and see what happens. You never know when someone has had enough and just wants out. The 30-40ft range seems pretty firm still but I've noticed that older, larger boats, in the 42-48ft range have dropped in price recently. I'm guessing the cost to keep them is driving this. RT