Replacing Lifelines DIY--Stainless or Synthetic? [Master Thread]

[Loren Beach]

SS wire

I just checked the invoice and it shows 124 feet of 3/16" 1 X 19 SS wire was used. This was billed out at $1.25 / foot.
I should note that We$t Marine charges about 45 or 49 dollars for those trick new over-center pelican hooks and my rigger billed them out at $38. @. I was pleased with the price and service as much as with the improved closures.

Hope this helps,

Loren in PDX
Olson 34 Fresh Air

 

[WhiteNoise]

I would go with a professional swage

I agree with Nate. I actually researched this on my last boat. IMHO I would go with the professional swage. In my findings it was quite apparent that the "do-it-yourself" swage is not nearly as strong as when done professionally.

That's not to say it's bad but definately something to consider if you do any kind of racing/sailing during which you have people hiking out on the high rail. A couple of bodies can put some enormous pressure on those lines and the last thing you want is 2,3, or more MOBs with other boats on your tail.

When I calculated the price difference between the two, by the time you purchase the special tool it just wasn't worth it to me when I considered the work, loss of performance, and increased risk of losing my fellow sailing companion.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Happy sailing!

 

[Sven]

To buy the high tech line (Amsteel and/or Spectra, to recall a couple) and the "special fittings" to splice the line onto, the cost seems to be running very close to the cost of wire and the fittings. Plus, the manufacturer recommends replacing the line after three years.... ... John B.

We just saw a boat with the lifelines redone with Spectra ... I'm sold ! Actually, Nancy was sold first and then came and got me.

(Glyn, it is "Tight Squeeze" on our dock, Wayne's boat)

Double lines, 100', cost him $90 and he had the job done in one day. It looks great and the gray color means that it won't look dirty despite the LAX stuff that rains down on us.

He used simple bowline knots covered with heavy black shrinkwrap. It looks very professional and my only worry would be that you'd get some nice bruises if you fell against it because it is so thin.

It would be worth replacing every couple-three years.


-Sven

 

[Willpatten]

Coated lifelines

I've heard that the USCG (like the ORC) was discouraging the use of white vinyl coating on lifelines because they couldn't be inspected. If that's the case, is there a clear coating available or is bare wire the solution?
I'm going to replace my lifelines this winter and am planning to use the old Pelican hooks. Are the new styles so much improved that I should reconsider?

 

[Loren Beach]

Hi Will,
Before we had our lifelines replaced, two other cruising boats on our walk alone had converted to the new pelican hooks this year alone. In each case the wife is even more pleased by the change than the husband. Those "over center" hooks with the "barb" and snap-shackle closure are really the engineering version of the cat's meow. Get the new pelicans -- you will not be disppointed.

As to having coated vs uncoated, note that any "comfort factor" is going to be dependent on diameter, and that the small increase in dia. for a thin coating of vinyl really does not add much. That's why there will remain a strong market for those fabric-covered tubes/cushions that people slide loosely over the part of the upper liftline that they lean against all the time on either side of the cockpit. (Note that the "loose fit" of those round cushions means that they cannot trap water against the ss wire like formed vinyl, either.

BTW, another Ericson in our YC just had new bare wire lifelines installed. At this point I would say it's a choice between ss bare wire and the high tec line like Ethan put on... but that's just me speaking.

Whatever you choose, replace 'em every 10 to 14 years... and Be Safe.


Loren in PDX

 

[Guy Stevens]

Don't use bowlines

We just saw a boat with the lifelines redone with Spectra

He used simple bowline knots covered with heavy black shrinkwrap. It looks very professional and my only worry would be that you'd get some nice bruises if you fell against it because it is so thin.

-Sven

A much better way of doing this is to use a mobius brummel splice. You can get directions for them on new england ropes web site. It is probably one of the easiest splices that you will ever do.

When we start working on life lines even if we have a way over strength system I like to make sure that we keep all the strength that we can. Bowlines have a big issue with this kind of line in addition to reducing the strength of the line significantly more than a mobius brummel splice, bowlines in spectra are likely to slip out. High Modulus lines are slippery.

Besides the splice looks way way more knotical .

Get the new pelican hooks from Johnson which are meant to be spliced to, it will be a bit more money than others, but they are much better constructed and will survive many line changes.

I will send a photo later today, after all of my work is done.....

Guy

 

[Sven]

Hi Guy,

A much better way of doing this is to use a mobius brummel splice ... ... bowlines in spectra are likely to slip out. High Modulus lines are slippery ... ... Get the new pelican hooks from Johnson which are meant to be spliced to

I'd considered the slippage problem with the bowline, but am not sure it would be a problem because the line is not under constant load ? The mobius does look like a better alternative, I agree with you.

Where did you find the Johnson Pelican Hooks for splicing to ? I can only find hand crimp and swage models.

Thanks,


-Sven

 

[Loren Beach]

http://mt.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/00014.htm

Maybe this page from their on-line catalog might help. You probably should just call them and explain just what you want...

Loren

ps; photos of our new pelican hooks now added to my earlier post -- tried to show how they function.

 

[Sven]

http://www.csjohnson.com/marcatalog/6.html

Maybe this page from their on-line catalog might help. You probably should just call them and explain just what you want...

Loren

Excellent !

Thanks,


-Sven

 

[Chris Miller]

good option

I've been contemplating going with this option, since ours are in need of replacement. I got an estimate of $900 from the place that is doing our standing rig replacement- which seemed a little high. Thanks for the catalog link with the hardware. Next question, 1/4" Vectran or 1/4" spectra? I'd prefer to go with a 12 braid , but not sure which of those will last longer in the sun (MD rather than CA, but still an issue). Upfront cost difference is about $0.20 per foot, but if the vectran lasted longer it might be worth the extra. Thoughts?
Last question is: do we know when the Coasties are going to consider HM lifelines safe enough to pass a safety inspection?
Great topic!
Chris

 

[Loren Beach]

Here is that SJ catalog page with the line terminations, They keep changing the page url and people keep asking about this whole subject.

Loren

 

[bayhoss]

I just replaced my lifelines with 5/16 regatta line. Put brummel splices in either end and it looks more than acceptable. One factor that made for the most consideration is that as I get older. Or, just plain old, SS wire is very difficut to grip. The more flexable lines with the "knobby" grip give the old hands an advantage.

Best,
Frank

 

[SAM]

lifeline replacement

Just did mine by removing and reseting to proper tensioned length. Sent to "Rigging-Only" who did the double lifelines for my E-28 for about $450.00 using Hayne turnbuckles and the Johnson over the center top of line gate hook. All good stuff and the assembly was well done.
I swaged mine the last time using the Johnson high end lever type swage tool. If you decide to do it yourself I will sell the tool for $75.00 + shipping. It cost a lot more than that and was only used once on my last boat. Good luck.
Regards,
Sam

 

[pick]

I just had mine done by "Rigging Products Inc" in Portland Oregon. It cost just less than $500 on my 32-3. All I did was take the old lines in and had them replace it with all new parts. I upgraded the gate hooks as well. I had them do one side at a time "just-in-case" but everything turned out fine. Make sure that the lines are the correct length with the adjusters set in their center range when you bring them in. I think that most of their business is with the logging and trucking industry but they do do lifelines, I think its like working on itty bitty jewelry for them

http://winchlines.rtrk.com/?scid=1178336&rl_alt=http%3A%2F%2Fwinchlines.com

Mike

 

[Tom Metzger]

Since we are doing "Show & Tell", I did my E-34's lifelines this winter. It was about $460 from New JSI in Florida, but didn't include turnbuckles or gate hooks (I love fresh water - ). Shipping was about $25 total, there & back.

Defender wanted about $100 more, and WM quoted catalog prices, about $770 + Tax, and wouldn't budge when I talked directly to their rigging shop. Everyone quoted the same Hayn parts.

 

[Loren Beach]

More synthetic life line info

Here's a new thread from another forum with pics of a Dyneema version.
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=139295

More food for thought, as the saying goes....

LB

 

[toddster]

LOL. Strange you should dredge up this old thread. I just came back inside from doing mine. I only had to replace one section, so I matched the old coated wire.

Regarding load capacity of swaged terminals - the hand swaged joints are rated to "withstand a force of 2500 lbs." I'm pretty sure that much force would have carried away the stanchion already.

I wanted to have the fittings pressed at WM, but it turns out that the lever-action device they have there "is not compatible with" (is a different brand than) the fittings I bought. But when I got home, I found that the hand-crimper they sold me is also a different brand and "not compatible." Basically, it's wider, so you can only put four crimps on a fitting instead of five. Anyway, inspection showed that most of the existing hardware on the boat only has THREE crimps on a fitting, so I went with it.

 

[Brass Dragon]

Its the fittings not the swaging that costs big

I had been waffling about whether to do my own lifelines or have them done. It turns out that the fittings are the big cost. For example, pelican hooks are up to $70. I had been waffling between those do it yourself fittings or true swage. The fittings cost about the same. It only cost $6 per fitting to swage the fittings at the local WM and its a much more substantial fitting. I have been trollling our local second hand marine exchange and found "apparently new" fabricated sections of lifeline with pelican hooks already on. I just had to bring in the pin to pin dimension, pay for one stud and swage fee to shorten them to length. Word of warning, is that riggers wont want to swage on an obviously used wire.

 

[Loren Beach]

More about Dyneema and Dux

Some good narrative and pictures are newly-added to this synthetic lifeline thread over at SailNet.
It seems like gathering up other info sources and links would be good for the ongoing discussion here.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/74652-dyneema-lifelines.html

Best,
Loren

 

[Sven]

All new SS lifelines installed

As I mentioned in some other places, we ended up with a suddenly cracking and rusting vinyl covered lifeline about two weeks ago. That created a more urgent replacement need than we'd expected so we decided to just have it done while we work on the other installations we already have under way.

We took Jeff Asbury's recommendation and called Seatek here in San Pedro. 4 or 5 workdays later we have the new swaged, bare SS lifelines installed and they look great ! The cash price was $560 installed, would have been a bit more if we'd used a credit card.

I think just the parts would have cost us more if we'd done it ourselves.



-Sven