Running the engine directly from a jerry can

[nquigley]

Occasionally I see Youtube channels reporting that they had a fuel supply problem at a critical time while out cruising (e.g., getting ready to enter a harbor). They set up a temporary fix by supplying the engine directly from a jerry can.
I want to anticipate this possibility before I head out in September, and have the necessary hoses, connectors, etc., ready to go. What do y'all think are the most common issues that might lead to this need? (by knowing the main possible causes, maybe I can mitigate them quickly).
Also, one report I saw this week warned that when using this detour, the jerry can will empty quickly because the fuel return line will go back to the main tank ... possibly overfilling it if it's already quite full. Should I install a tap in the return line that will allow the returned fuel to go to the jerry can when using this workaround?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice the forum about this temporary fuel supply detour!

 

[N.A.]

I would think the most likely issue would be a clogged Racor/fuel filter.

A friend (with a Catalina) has a dual-Racor setup, with a Y-valve that lets him switch from one to the other while the engine is running. That way if (when...) the engine starts to balk he just goes down, flips the Y valve, and everything runs great and he has plenty of time to replace the filter in the other Racor (which he does right away, but not while under pressure.)

I plan to eventually set this up on my boat -- changing a filter while under duress looks like zero fun.

To the extent the filter is the problem, I'm unsure how the jerry can solves it -- either one skips the filter (bad idea in my book) or may still be stuck with a clogged one. And switching the fuel line to a jerry can seems like a great way to get air in the fuel line, which is a longer fix than just the filter. (Speaking of air in the line, some Racors have a little pump on the top to get the air out when replacing the filter... I also plan to move that way, rather than trying to maneuver a brimming container of diesel and thread it on while rolling in a swell.)

I feel like maybe I'm missing the point here, though, and the actual concern is something different. If so, apologies.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Occasionally I see Youtube channels reporting that they had a fuel supply problem at a critical time while out cruising (e.g., getting ready to enter a harbor). They set up a temporary fix by supplying the engine directly from a jerry can.
I want to anticipate this possibility before I head out in September, and have the necessary hoses, connectors, etc., ready to go. What do y'all think are the most common issues that might lead to this need? (by knowing the main possible causes, maybe I can mitigate them quickly).
Also, one report I saw this week warned that when using this detour, the jerry can will empty quickly because the fuel return line will go back to the main tank ... possibly overfilling it if it's already quite full. Should I install a tap in the return line that will allow the returned fuel to go to the jerry can when using this workaround?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice the forum about this temporary fuel supply detour!

@Kenneth K and @vanilladuck did something like what you're contemplating which they discuss in this thread:

Removal of fuel tank in 32-3

I need to remove my fuel tank to check on a possible fuel leak into the bilge. I know of at least three members here who have been there, done that, so I know it is generally do-able. I thought that if I could disconnect the fill and vent lines at the aft end of the tank, I should be able to...

ericsonyachts.org

I'll be interested in hearing any more related experience folks can provide. I wouldn't have thought to consider the bleeder overflow issue.
Jeff

 

[Christian Williams]

common issues that might lead to this need?

The most likely cause of an engine stopping at just the wrong time is a clogged fuel filter caused by nonstandard rough seas. The fuel gets agitated and particles are the culprit.

The realistic solution is just to be prepared to change fuel filters. On the 32-3 with the usual screw-on Racor that's awkward and takes 15 minutes--but nowhere near as awkward as a jerry can scheme.

If the engine quits coastwise in traffic, anchor and change filters. With sea room, heave to. And if the filter ain't it, call the tow service.

 

[Pete the Cat]

@Kenneth K and @vanilladuck did something like what you're contemplating which they discuss in this thread:

Removal of fuel tank in 32-3

I need to remove my fuel tank to check on a possible fuel leak into the bilge. I know of at least three members here who have been there, done that, so I know it is generally do-able. I thought that if I could disconnect the fill and vent lines at the aft end of the tank, I should be able to...

ericsonyachts.org

I'll be interested in hearing any more related experience folks can provide. I wouldn't have thought to consider the bleeder overflow issue.
Jeff

This sounds a bit over the top and could be distracting from fixing the main problem to me. I have done a fair amount of cruising in the last 50 years and had a few fuel "failures"--but I had sails and an anchor and a basic understanding of the system and was able to work my way out of the problem each time. For me, carrying around a secondary fuel supply would add much more complexity to a fuel problem than just being familiar and attentive with your current one. If you have a clean tank stuff does not grow there over night--inspect it every year or two. One pre emptive thing I would suggest is for folks to make sure there is no screen on the pickup tube in your tank. I believe most of the production factories stopped this practice in the 90s, but if you have a clog there, you do have a problem that is hard to solve underway. But beside that, I find it difficult to imagine a fuel situation that cannot be resolved in time to avoid an emergency--and installing a back up would seem to be as difficult as fixing your current system. I would worry that having a separate system would introduce more uncertainty and complexity than it would prevent. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

This sounds a bit over the top and could be distracting from fixing the main problem to me. I have done a fair amount of cruising in the last 50 years and had a few fuel "failures"--but I had sails and an anchor and a basic understanding of the system and was able to work my way out of the problem each time. For me, carrying around a secondary fuel supply would add much more complexity to a fuel problem than just being familiar and attentive with your current one. If you have a clean tank stuff does not grow there over night--inspect it every year or two. One pre emptive thing I would suggest is for folks to make sure there is no screen on the pickup tube in your tank. I believe most of the production factories stopped this practice in the 90s, but if you have a clog there, you do have a problem that is hard to solve underway. But beside that, I find it difficult to imagine a fuel situation that cannot be resolved in time to avoid an emergency--and installing a back up would seem to be as difficult as fixing your current system. I would worry that having a separate system would introduce more uncertainty and complexity than it would prevent. Just my 2 cents.

Sound advice, Ray. I'm an almost pathological collector of options ideas.

 

[vanilladuck]

@nquigley, here's an article I wrote about setting up a temporary tank. Maybe some of the details will spur some ideas of what to forecast going sideways:

E32-3 - A Temporary Janky Tanky

SV Rumour had a leak in her diesel tank. Not surprising after 3/16" aluminum sat on and rubbed and vibrated against the raw fiberglass hull for about 38 years. You'll find quite a few threads in the forums here with folks finding pinhole leaks in...

ericsonyachts.org

---

If you're interested in going another direction...

I'd probably make similar suggestions to what others have here: focus on making the problem easier to fix vs. adding more complexity. To that end, one of the first projects I completed on Rumour was to refit the fuel supply system with a Racor 500. The 500 has an overkill flow rate for the M25, but the filters are stupid easy to replace, esp. if the unit is located accessibly:

E32-3 - Fuel System Refit with a Racor 500

Intro When I started thinking about the fuel system on Rumour, I realized there were a few things to consider. I heard a number of recommendations to remove the old metal fuel supply lines and check or replace the old Racor 200 series primary...

ericsonyachts.org

I also updated my older M25 with the self-bleed M25XP after having a few fuel issues while sailing. Every fuel issue I've experienced has required bleeding the system of bubbles:

E32-3 - M-25 Recirculating Fuel Bleed Assembly

Fuel Bleed Basics Bleeding the air out of the fuel lines is something every marine diesel engine owner eventually has to deal with. Changing fuel filters is a typical trigger for obtaining air bubbles in the fuel lines. But, one might also get...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[bgary]

a clogged fuel filter caused by nonstandard rough seas. The fuel gets agitated and particles are the culprit.

Has anyone ever pumped out the contents of the lowest corner of their tank?

Every once in a while (usually during an oil change), it occurs to me
-- I have a vacuum-driven pump designed to slurp out fluids,
-- I have a section of clean tubing that would reach to the bottom-most depths of the tank, and
-- I have an inspection port I could do it through.

It's tempting to stick the hose down there, provide some suction and see what comes up. At worst (?) it would be clean fuel. At best, it might be crud which could then be dumped and forever preempted from clogging my filter.

... but then I get busy doing other things and forget about it until next oil change.

Good idea, or really dumb?
B

 

[Christian Williams]

That's what my tank looked like before inspection ports. Most of the stuff was concentrated under the pickup tube. There was almost no diesel glop on the vertical walls.

I wonder if the tube area, always the lowest in the tank, could be swabbed out through the sender- gauge port. With guidance by a cheap borescope that might remove a good percentage of tank glop.

Yes, I have been posting a lot during two weeks of Covid, the coughing of which threw my back out, requiring a steroid epidural tomorrow.

 

[Pete the Cat]

Has anyone ever pumped out the contents of the lowest corner of their tank?

Every once in a while (usually during an oil change), it occurs to me
-- I have a vacuum-driven pump designed to slurp out fluids,
-- I have a section of clean tubing that would reach to the bottom-most depths of the tank, and
-- I have an inspection port I could do it through.

It's tempting to stick the hose down there, provide some suction and see what comes up. At worst (?) it would be clean fuel. At best, it might be crud which could then be dumped and forever preempted from clogging my filter.

... but then I get busy doing other things and forget about it until next oil change.

Good idea, or really dumb?
B

I do this every year or two. I have a tube on a dowel so that I can direct it to the lowest point (generally this is conveniently located under the sending unit) and use a cheap Harbor Freight pump into a glass bottle. I try to see if there is water or guk at that point. I think I generally get a teaspoon of water and couple flakes, but I also use biocide with every fill. Nigel Calder recommends doing this annually in his Maintenance book.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . . .
Yes, I have been posting a lot during two weeks of Covid, the coughing of which threw my back out, requiring a steroid epidural tomorrow.

Yikes! I hope that does the trick and it's better from there on.

 

[Christian Williams]

Thanks all-not really yachting news, sorry. The FLiRT strain is wrecking havoc locally, but it's not as bad as previous editions.

 

[nquigley]

@nquigley, here's an article I wrote about setting up a temporary tank. Maybe some of the details will spur some ideas of what to forecast going sideways:

E32-3 - A Temporary Janky Tanky

SV Rumour had a leak in her diesel tank. Not surprising after 3/16" aluminum sat on and rubbed and vibrated against the raw fiberglass hull for about 38 years. You'll find quite a few threads in the forums here with folks finding pinhole leaks in...

ericsonyachts.org

---

If you're interested in going another direction...

I'd probably make similar suggestions to what others have here: focus on making the problem easier to fix vs. adding more complexity. To that end, one of the first projects I completed on Rumour was to refit the fuel supply system with a Racor 500. The 500 has an overkill flow rate for the M25, but the filters are stupid easy to replace, esp. if the unit is located accessibly:

E32-3 - Fuel System Refit with a Racor 500

Intro When I started thinking about the fuel system on Rumour, I realized there were a few things to consider. I heard a number of recommendations to remove the old metal fuel supply lines and check or replace the old Racor 200 series primary...

ericsonyachts.org

I also updated my older M25 with the self-bleed M25XP after having a few fuel issues while sailing. Every fuel issue I've experienced has required bleeding the system of bubbles:

E32-3 - M-25 Recirculating Fuel Bleed Assembly

Fuel Bleed Basics Bleeding the air out of the fuel lines is something every marine diesel engine owner eventually has to deal with. Changing fuel filters is a typical trigger for obtaining air bubbles in the fuel lines. But, one might also get...

ericsonyachts.org

Thanks, Bryan. That's a great article. I already have the thumbscrew bleed knob, but it's messed up somehow - it doesn't open the line when turned. I still have to loosen the hex nut to bleed bubbles out. I'm heading off in about 7 weeks and already have a long punch-list to knock out before then - I doubt I'll have time to make the upgrade you documented before then, but now I know it's there if/when I can get to it.
The most recent instance I've seen of needing to quickly solve a fuel problem with a remote jerry can was LoveWorx (solo woman circumnavigating on a small boat) ... after a long and tiring passage from one Fr. Polynesian island to another, she tried to start her engine about 30 min before getting to the pass in the reef. It failed to start after several attempts and after trying a couple things to fix it. She has already sailed from Holland to Fr. Polynesia via the Caribbean and Panama - she knows her engine very well. She didn't want to wait for the next tide cycle because she was very tired, and the breeze had completely died and the current was about to sweep her away from the pass. I can imagine other situations when the engine won't start but you really really need it soon and haven't been able to diagnose/fix the problem: e.g., engine is behaving like there's a partial fuel blockage but for some reason you don't have time to do a full diagnosis to fix it ... maybe bad weather is coming fast into your anchorage and you need to move quickly to a more sheltered cove; anchor is dragging in strong wind or current and you're heading for the shore; engine has been behaving unreliably recently due most likely to bad fuel or another issue and you simply can't afford for it to stop - coming into a crowded anchorage, negotiating a course with strong current, etc.
It may be overkill, but I still plan to work out how to plug in a jerry can of trusted fuel at short notice.

 

[Loren Beach]

Not quite what was requested, but a different answer to the question of dealing with a plugged filter when minutes are important might be to what other cruisers (and commercial boat operators) do: install a filter system that lets you choose a clean filer with a turn of a valve.
I know of boaters that have built their own version with a valve and parts, to save some $.

 

[Kenneth K]

It may be overkill, but I still plan to work out how to plug in a jerry can of trusted fuel at short notice.

Sounds like you're looking for temporary solution vs a permanent backup like a dual filter setup.

You'll know the jerry can is clean so that won't be a potential source of clogging.

You'll know the new fuel is fresh, but that doesn't mean it's free of water and/or contaminants. I'd consider pumping from a first container, through a fuel filter, then into your jerry can. Then you can consider the fuel clean, so at this point I wouldn't be concerned about hooking it to your engine downstream of the clogged filters.

As N.A. said, hooking the jerry can up is likely to allow air into the system. Not a big deal at all IF you have an electric fuel pump and the thumbscrew bleed knob Brian talks about. I'd order a new bleed knob from Westerbeke.com. I'd want to know I could easily bleed the system if I was going with the temporary jerry can setup.

And yes, you'll need to handle the constant trickle of fuel from the return line and route it back into the jerry can (or, a second container), but NOT back into the permanent fuel tank, which you already know is contaminated at this point.

Good luck.

 

[Christian Williams]

work out how to plug in a jerry can of trusted fuel at short notice.

To me this is a wrong approach to the general issue of engine reliability.

I would spend the energy making sure the engine works as it was built to, and how diesel engines have proven themselves over many generations by the market correcting known issues.

Confidence is a clean tank, good fuel lines, a reliable cooling system and battery bank, and an owner prepared for basic troubleshooting.

So the way I see it, the jerry-can backup isn't overkill, it is underkill. It means the owner has not taken the steps required for a reliable engine.

I would not like to be rigging a jerry can while drifting onto a shoal, and of course there's no guarantee it would work.