Seepage at keel bolts E 38-200 (E 381) recurring issue?

[Saverio]

in my 38 200 no keel problems, no water infiltration, big bolts all good, checked the whole boat with a special tool. Hello to all of you from Italy

 

[Loren Beach]

Removing the keel also means removing the mast (so the boat doesn't blow over without a bottom weight). Pay for the crane to get the boat out of the water, another crane to take the mast out. Another crane to lift the boat off the keel. Then reverse order.

Sounds reasonable enough, but not like our own experience. For us the yard lifted the boat off of the keel with the travel lift, and after a day of cleaning up the hull and top of keel casting, lowered it back down onto a mass of new sealant, and torqued up the nuts.

Admittedly, if they had found that any bolts needed to be removed or otherwise strengthened, this would have required moving the boat onto jack stands, and then back again. Time and money, at risk, and perhaps we were lucky.
Another situation where "YMMV"....

Speaking of time, knowing that we had an otherwise-premium built boat, I was prepared to do that maintenance and find a way to budget it. We knew even then that this might well be our last boat, and almost three decades later we were correct. Over the years every yard and mechanic that has done any maintenance on it has mentioned (unsolicited, even) that Ericson built a really good boat.

 

[e38 owner]

I have had some damage from the boat sitting on the trailer over the winter and am getting some small leaks around the front keel boat about a shower sump full in a a week. Loren What yard did you use in Portland. It may be the easiest for me to get to.

 

[Loren Beach]

I have had some damage from the boat sitting on the trailer over the winter and am getting some small leaks around the front keel boat about a shower sump full in a a week. Loren What yard did you use in Portland. It may be the easiest for me to get to.

I used Schooner Creek Boatworks, on Hayden Island. They should still have their tall steel frame (and assorted wedges) to hold the keel secure while the travel lift raises the boat clear of the keel top. They will thoroughly clean of and de-wax the joining surfaces and drop it back down onto (very likely) a new layer of 5200. Hopefully there will not be any significant corrosion on the threads.
Is your model the mid engine or aft engine model?

 

[e38 owner]

I used Schooner Creek Boatworks, on Hayden Island. They should still have their tall steel frame (and assorted wedges) to hold the keel secure while the travel lift raises the boat clear of the keel top. They will thoroughly clean of and de-wax the joining surfaces and drop it back down onto (very likely) a new layer of 5200. Hopefully there will not be any significant corrosion on the threads.
Is your model the mid engine or aft engine model?

Thank you
Aft Engine 1981
Mast step would need to be removed

 

[Christian Williams]

As far as I can recall reading, we have not had a keel drop required on an early 1980s boat. The issue seems to relate to the mold release factor, which apparently afflicted models in the second half of the '80s, specifically the -200 series and Loren's 1988 Olson.

So keep us posted on the leaks project of your 1981 E38.

 

[Felicity]

Well I hate to disagree with Christian, but in my experience the issue with keels needing to be dropped is a common one. And also there IS a design flaw that allows the interior pan and cabin sole to sag and throw off the cabinetry and door jams. Our 1989 model 38-200 had all these issues.

Right after we bought the boat we had water running down the from the keel joint with the boat on the hard, and when you lifted the boat in the slings the back foot or so of the keel separated from the joint and was unsupported. Based on this we had the keel dropped, and rebedded with epoxy. Which worked perfectly, as after that the bilge was dusty dry (except when it rained) and the keel no longer separated at the rear. The apparent need to add additional support to the rear of the keel is why our yard suggested using epoxy, not just caulk, to do the bedding. In our case there was clear evidence that the original mold release had not be removed from the bottom of the hull prior to mounting the keel, and there was even a paper label on the surface under the failed caulk. This might be unique to our hull, but I doubt it.

As for the design defect on the hull. After the boat was in the water awhile the cabin sole would sag, about 2 cm or so. You could see this on the side of the galley cabinetry, as the floor would drop, but the cabinet side would not move, exposing fresh cabinet side. And after this the door to the V-berth would no longer close. All of this went away every fall when the boat was hauled for the winter and placed on the hard on the keel. I contacted the factory and asked about it and they said they had seen this on other 38s, and called it "subsidence". They said that one owner had gone so far as to have a pipe engineered that tied the floor pan to the overhead to add additional support. But their attitude towards the issue was that while there was subsidence, it wasn't progressive. That is, once the hull shape had deformed a bit, it stabilized, and didn't get any worse. And as disconcerting as it was, the only real manifestation was that the V-berth door would not close.

I wouldn't let these issues deter someone from purchasing a 38, but I would sure look for them.

Huh, sounds like alot of issues. I have a 38-200 89, with no such challenges. the boat has been a charm.

 

[southofvictor]

Our 1989 38-200 has an alignment issue with the head door and what looks like settling or some kind of movement at the settee/bulkhead joint at the forward end of the salon on both sides. When we hauled out last spring the keel/hull joint showed a little bit of cracking (about 6" at the forward end and 3" at the aft end with no separation) but nothing that caused us or the yard concern. We inspected the keel bolts and they look good.

The head door gets sticky at the bottom corner, especially in the winter. What's funny is that the bottom of the door is level with the cabin sole, but the top is not lined up with the frame above it. I'm not a carpenter so it's a head-scratcher for me.

Here are some pics. While it's something I always notice and often wonder about, it's also something I chalk up to 35 years of age and question how much time and energy it's worth spending on it. As long as the keel stays on and the TAFG and bulkheads stay attached to the hull I think I'm happy.

 

[Christian Williams]

On my head door I just planed down the sticking point.

 

[bigd14]

I have the same issue on the 30+. I planed the door down last year but it’s sticking again. I guess the boat is settling a few mm a year. Not much I can do about it though.

 

[e38 owner]

Thank you for the advice. A part of me thinks I should remove the keel bolt nut in the shower sump. Apply some not to tenacious caulk 4000 or total boat seal, replace lock washer and nut retorque and call it good.

 

[David Grimm]

My 1986 38-200 always has water in the bilge. Weather it be on the hard or in the water. So my guess is it rains here too often. The keel has a line where it comes togeather that has not changed in the 6 years of ownership. The head door needs a nudge to close on the hard and a slightly different nudge while in the water. I've personally never had to make any adjustments. As long as I can close it from the inside I'm ok.

 

[Saverio]

Good evening to all of you, my 38 200 from 1987 doesn't have these problems, maybe it's luck!!! On Friday my wife and I left Porto Garibaldi Ferrara, heading towards Gabicce Pesaro, I knew that the bora would arrive towards the evening, unfortunately it wasn't like that, I got 48 kn of wind, the boat went well, I was down on deck , my wife at the helm, to check that everything was OK, no creaking, bathroom door opening well, everything is perfect, these Ericsons are great boats. Xavier.

 

[Christian Williams]

The Bora is a wind that blows in a North North-Easterly direction from the mountains into the Gulf of Trieste. It blows intermittently with gusts that can occasionally be very strong. In Trieste the Bora is said to be "dark" when there is cloud, rain or snow, and "light" when the sky is clear.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bora_(wind)

 

[Saverio]

 

[Saverio]

this photo taken upon returning to our port Marina Estensi Ferrara