Self Tacking Jibs, anyone?

[steven]

Downwind, how do you keep a jib boom from running into the lifelines?

--Steve

 

[Blue Chip]

No ddw

I see your point Seth as I reflect on the fact that the darn boat just doesn't do WING ON WING at all. Can't get the spread you really need and it can gybe easily if the winds are at all flaky.
Ah well, for us old folks it's "rocking chair" sailing andIi guess you sacrifice something for the convenience of never having to go on deck once you leave the dock.
Hope tp out out Sunday as there sems to be a window in the foggy drippy weather.

 

[Seth]

Lifelines

Most jib boom set-ups are designed with an upward angle from the swivel point just aft of the bow (and this point is usually elevated off the deck a little) so that the boom will clear the lifelines when eased out-althouth you do not really use this set up effectively when sailing ddw. Since the headsail is by definition a small non-overlapping sail, most folks with this set up will furl or drop the jib, and fly some type of larger, downwind sail when running for long periods.

Hope this helps!

 

[steven]

sheeting angle

Seth,

Thanks. That helps quite a bit. I put a furling 95% jib on Whisper last season. Really happy with it. Have started using it as default headsail instead of my 110 or 130. Now, considering making it self tacking so I can get even lazier.

Blue Chip - would prefer to do it your way without a club, but my clew seems too high to get the sheeting angle to work. Is your sail a deck sweeper, or is there some other solution?

--Steve

 

[Blue Chip]

No deck sweeper

Never been a real problem, I'll try send what few pics I have of us (hard to take your own picture) and maybe that will answer your questions better than words. Let's see.

 

[Loren Beach]

Blue Chip, From looking at the pics, I am too poor-visioned (or dim witted...) to discern how the sheeting works.
Are you still leading each separate sheet to a block on each side deck and thence to a winch? Or, is there a jib traveler there? :nerd:
Thanks again for sharing, and the sailing looks so nice.

Regards,
Loren

 

[Blue Chip]

the route

Near the wheel is a winch on which hangs the line....it runs through a couple of blocks on it's way past the starboard stanchions basically lying on the deck. At the base of the forstay is a block through which it goes then to a block on the jib traveler just in front of the mast, then back to the sail where it goes through a block about shoulder high and then back to the block on the traveler where it is tied off. Cute little block just for the purpose.
The driver pulls on the line next to him...the sail unfurls and voila you have a jib on a traveler controlled by one line. It is just high enough ( the line) that it doesn't get caught on the forward hatch etc, and the jib by its cut clears the lifelines for the most part.
I think the trick is to get a sailmaker that really understands the system. The original sail worked well, but was cut back in the early days of the idea and nobody had much of a clue. The guy we had this past summer that did the new sails had MUCH more experience of course with self tending jibs and the sail works perfectly. The shape is marvelous wih NO little shaking or flapping at the top we occassionaly had with the old one.
It's off the boat now as we take th jib home in the rainy season (mold) but when it goes back on I'll try my hand a at a video if you like.
Hope this helps.

 

[Loren Beach]

Another of a Jib Track setup

Here are some pics of the custom track and supports built for a Cascade 27. This was for a local couple in their 80's that wanted to continue sailing. We sail on a river here, and often a lot of tacking is required.

The boat is a Cascade 27, a Robert Smith design, displacing about 6500#. Rig is pretty well balanced in area between E and J.
The end supports are welded aluminum.

LB

 

[Blue Chip]

Lorens pics give you the idea of how our BLUE CHIP system works.
Next time down I'll take and then send pics of ours.
The attachment points on BC are not as large or obvious as they are in these pics, but it's just a different albeit "clumsier" style. (IMHO)
Anyway with a 97% it works well. We still have he original tracks on the deck and the TWO sheets so if we want it is a mattefr of minutes to switch to the "older sytem " BUT at 79 and 75 respecfully we don't hanker to wander around the boat too much. It's rocking chair sailing folks, but, damn, it works well!
Pics are on the list.
Hey... saw a porpoise and a Manta Ray this past weekend. Porpoise was in South Bay near the ATT Ball Park, and the Manta Rays were in our marina looking for lunch. It was a GOOD sail Sunday, 16 to 20 knots.Yahoo!!!

 

[Blue Chip]

self tending jib ..single lin

Man, I hope I can get the pictures to "attach"..they are certainly better than words.
The "sheet" which doubles as the "unfurl it line" (technical term??) is on starboard side and run off of aft winch. The "roll it up line ( technical term again) is on port and runs to bottom of jib of course.
Now I'll try for pics!!!

 

[Blue Chip]

Apparently I have a compute that stutters!!!I notice this is the ONLY entry on page three. This whole thing makes more sense if you go to the LAST entry on page 2 where I have redundant pics. There, I feel better now.

 

[Loren Beach]

Closure: small jib, but still not self-tacking

While I still like the nice curved track setup on Blue Chip, I recently did go with a 97% jib. Vertical battens to maintain a decent leech, and sheeted to the boat's already-factory-installed forward tracks.

Pictured under sail, and received courtesy of another EY.o member, from an evening sail this last week.

It seems to point very well, and we would guess that it's good in any wind from about 8 kts and up. We have used it in bigger air at a bit over 20 kts with a reef in our main and it's a really good combo.

Tacking is really fast, with minimal winching needed.

I considered both the considerable cost of a proper track and supports, and also the "trend" nowadays back to 100% jibs for all-around sailing. As Seth pointed out, for reaching in lighter air, a modern A-sail is all most of us need. (And recently even those are available nowadays on a line furler setup.)

Loren

 

[BDEidson]

Roller furling with vertical battens

Loren,

Your boat looks beautiful under sail. Is your new jib still an RF sail? If so, do those battens roller furl easily enough? Are the quite flexible?

Bill

 

[Loren Beach]

Loren,

Your boat looks beautiful under sail. Is your new jib still an RF sail? If so, do those battens roller furl easily enough? Are the quite flexible?

Bill

Actually, battens are parrell to the luff so that they do not flex or twist at all when rolled in. It is a roller furled/reefable sail.
Here's an installation guide from North.
http://il.northsails.com/RADUPLOADS/InstallationGuides/Vertical_Batten_Installation_Guide.pdf
And this is how ours is constructed.

:nerd:

Loren

 

[Loren Beach]

More background on 97% Jib idea

While the thread subject is different, the result is related...
So here's the link to the other thread.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...tting-the-Overlap-Juuuust-Right&referrerid=28

 

[Loren Beach]

Self Tacking Hardware Update

Last week I observed the install of a new Selden jib self tacking track and sheet on a 31 footer in our moorage. This is relatively new and the design and engineering looks good.

I will try to get some pix of it.

I was told that the price of all of the hardware (total with sheet and leads) was over 1K, total labor (skilled professional) was about 3K, and a new jib will be about 3K.

Not cheap, but the owner single hands almost exclusively.

http://www.seldenmast.com/en/press/press_releases/self_tacking_jib_systems.html

Loren