Serious offshore cruising

[Hairball23]

Debating between an Ericson 38 and an Islander 36 do do some serious off shore cruising in the fall. Mostly SF down to Mexico, continue south or across Pacific. Have several thousand miles logged on various boats, not my own. Crewed on Pacific Cup, Ba Ha Ha, and several coast races in CA.

Want to hear from owners with experience off shore with the E38 (or I36) to point me in the right direction for purchase or additonal due diligence.

Aloha-
Hairball

 

[Ryan L]

I'm interested in seeing what responses you get. My wife and I have similar goals as you and have also sailed down Baja etc. After lots of searching, research, etc we narrowed it down to I36, Cal 40(or 39), or E38. A few months ago we purchased our E38-200. We're still in the endless process of preparing her for more extensive cruising so haven't had much time actually sailing her but the time we have she performed incredibly well, especially in the lighter air mostly upwind conditions we experienced.

A few positives that stand out in our minds: Her stiffness and solid construction and how comfortable she is down below.

A few negatives that stand out: The inaccessibility of much of the bilge and insufficient ability to store chain rode (although we're currently "fixing" this in a way similar to what you can find searching the forum).

Other factors that swayed our decision including the amount of boat you get for the money you spend, the availability of information via this forum, and feedback from various sailors we respect.

For what it's worth I assume you know Zac Sutherland circumnavigated in a heavily modified I36? There is also an amazing woman named Liz Clark who has spent the past 5 years sailing throughout the South Pacific onboard her Cal 40 "Swell." She got the boat immediately after graduating college in Santa Barbara, sailed it down the South America, then worked her way to various islands in the South Pacific, often alone... check out swellvoyage.com

Again, I'm looking forward to seeing what people have to say!

Debating between an Ericson 38 and an Islander 36 do do some serious off shore cruising in the fall. Mostly SF down to Mexico, continue south or across Pacific. Have several thousand miles logged on various boats, not my own. Crewed on Pacific Cup, Ba Ha Ha, and several coast races in CA.

Want to hear from owners with experience off shore with the E38 (or I36) to point me in the right direction for purchase or additonal due diligence.

Aloha-
Hairball

 

[Ryan L]

By the way, I forgot to mention that while Cal 40 and E38 have obvious differences in construction, design, etc they are strikingly similar in terms of many of their measurements. Displacement is nearly identical as is LWL and a number of their performance ratios etc. http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

 

[Hairball23]

I do know both those explorers! And envy strongly! Zak's boat is actually for sail I heard. I also heard the Cal 40 is a good choice, but I can't get myself to be thousand miles off shore in a gail in a 1967 built boat!

 

[Hairball23]

By the way, I forgot to mention that while Cal 40 and E38 have obvious differences in construction, design, etc they are strikingly similar in terms of many of their measurements. Displacement is nearly identical as is LWL and a number of their performance ratios etc. http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

That is interesting! the most important thing for me (there are many!!) is the ballast to displacement ratio...meaning if the boat is knocked down, it will get back up! the closer to 4.0 you get the better. I believe the E38 and the I36 are 3.9-4.0 or thereabouts. The ultalights- Express 37, Moore 24, Express 27, Santa Cruz boats which all travel vast ocean distances on races are 4.0-5.0 range. Very safe boats...but for cruising, not so much.

Catalina's are in the 3.2-3.5 range,, not too mention construction concerns.....my father and I in the early 80's saw a Catalina 30 directly under the golden gate bridge come apart in 35knots of wind! No thanks


I had the pleasure of doing the Pacific Cup in a Express 37 and while VERY fast, not the most comfortable.

 

[Loren Beach]

I have done a delivery down the WA coast in an I-36. Nice motion in a seaway. Matter of fact we took some big 'uns on the beam when we turned and crossed the Columbia Bar - joke was that one guy swore he saw a fish thru the low side cabin window on a hard roll! All good fun, and the hull seemed solid even in that rough patch.

I do, however, have a major bone to pick with the interior designer....
It was hard to find places to sleep on the off watch and there just was not a really useable nav table. I wonder if the the marketers overruled the designer and insisted on a "dockside" interior layout?


No concerns about sailing pedigree and construction, tho.
If you are looking at the Islander, have the moisture meter and educated hammer thoroughly applied to the cabin top and deck. That same boat later had many thousands spent on those areas to replace coring - and much of that problem started with some poorly designed weep holes for the hatch garage and traveler areas. That and hand rails and deck fitings were poorly bedded in the first place, IMHO.

While any boat from the 70's or 80's is old enough now to have already needed to have all the hardware rebedded, finding one with all this PM done is way rarer than it should be.


Best of luck in your search.
I would personally prefer the E-38, and I have a delivery coming up next month on a particularly nice one.




Loren

 

[PDX]

I do know both those explorers! And envy strongly! Zak's boat is actually for sail I heard. I also heard the Cal 40 is a good choice, but I can't get myself to be thousand miles off shore in a gail in a 1967 built boat!

There are Cal 40s that still race thousands of miles offshore, although if I recall correctly Liz Clark had some problems with hers.

 

[Loren Beach]

Speaking of blue water boats

Speaking of comparing to Cal 40's and .... others with similar shapes...
I just found out that Raindrop, one of the winningest Cascade 36's anywhere and berthed in our own little YC, is going on the market.
Strong and Fast and sisterships are cruising all over the world.
Either I or PDX can provide the email contact for the owner, back channel....

LB

 

[Ryan L]

The main problem that I am aware of was an issue she had with replacing the cutlass bearing and/or shaft. She had some leaking which turned out to be from a badly corroded shaft. She ended up having to do some creative work with hydraulic jacks, torches, and grinders. She tells the story better than I can... Here's one post from her blog during that repair. The rest of the story is in the posts before/after. http://www.swellvoyage.com/2010/02/...ur-say-it-with-a-french-accent-its-kinda-fun/

If I remember correctly she also did some work to change parts of the cabin sole, especially near the galley. There are lots of other customizations but overall as I understand it the Cal 40 serves her well. In fact she just finished a year semi-circumnavigation of French Polynesia. Not bad for an old boat that's been sailed on offshore passages and/or anchored in remote locations more or less continuously for the past five years or so.

But for what it's worth there were a few Cal 40s available and within our price range when we purchased our E38-200...

There are Cal 40s that still race thousands of miles offshore, although if I recall correctly Liz Clark had some problems with hers.

 

[Sid]

Cruising no matter what boat

My wife and I have been cruising sence 1997. We have encountered several E38's but no Cal40's. IMHO I think the Cal40 would make a good cruiser as long as you don't load her down too much. It's just a matter of what you require from a boat, just keep in mind she will be slower than you think. I have owned my E36c for 34yrs and watched her being built. But then I didn't now too much about boats and I've learned alot. If you want to go cruising and need a little push? Check out our blog Boatbumms.blogspot.com or just google boatbumms. One thing you should know is that we are a little disenchanted with the cruising life. It's alot better than we thought it would be.
Stay in deep water.

 

[Charles]

"A few months ago we purchased our E38-200. We're still in the endless process of preparing her for more extensive cruising so haven't had much time actually sailing her but the time we have she performed incredibly well, especially in the lighter air mostly upwind conditions we experienced. "

We had a 1982 E38 in San Pedro (#64) which we dearly loved, and it was only 5 years old when we bought it! Sailed it to Catalina 3 weeks out of every four, many fine hours spent on board. Had to sell it 6 years later for a job xfer to Va. Then, 4 years later, back to Ventura, and bought E38-200 (1987-#231) and sailed this one mainly around the Channel Islands. Had it 6 years also, then xfered back to Va.

Make sure the roller furling does not jamb in strong winds. Rig and running rigging inspected, clutches and winches are working (you don't need to overhaul stuff right now unless there is a problem.

I'm sure you have heard this on the dock, but just to reinforce, take it to Catalina (back side-Cat Harbor-anchor out there during the week), and then up to Santa Cruz, and spend a couple of weeks cruising on it up there. First trip back to SD, and your head will be full of action items.

Then do it again. Check the back side of Santa Cruz some. Keep messing around out there until you feel you know what you have, what you need, and what you can live without.

Both our boats had dodgers, auto pilots, full instruments, Loran (and later-GPS charts), roller furling, propane stoves, slab reefing rove, and no obvisous leaks or engine overheating/vibrations to work out. I made my own high rate regulators to get the max out of the stock 55 amp alternators, but that is archiac now. For Santa Cruz with the '87, had 120 ft of 3/8 HT chain and a 32 lb CQR on the stem, and a Danforth deepset std and 50 ft of 3/8 chain in the stern. Both boats had about 300 amp hours total battery capacity.

That, plus handhelds, FM radio, good charts, and binoculars. Maybe LED anchor light. Make sure the foredeck bulb is good, it is high wattage compared to the steaming light at the first spreader.

The Adler Barber Cold Machines ran about 12 out of 24 hours, taking about 60 amp hours with it each day. We bulked up with solid ice blocks. These are sold at Doug's general store at Catalina's Isthmus.

The 38 is a Cadillac on the water, and very handsome to row up to. Oh, you have a dingy and small outboard.

 

[Ryan L]

Ironically when you wrote your post I was on a 22 day trip much like what you described. A few weeks before that I single handed our E38 to Catalina and back. This trip I sailed her to Catalina, single handed up the coast to Santa Barbara, rounded Pt Conception then explored San Miguel and Santa Cruz islands before sailing back to San Diego non-stop from SCI. You wrote some great advice. More comments below...

Make sure the roller furling does not jamb in strong winds. Rig and running rigging inspected, clutches and winches are working (you don't need to overhaul stuff right now unless there is a problem.

***Our furler is very hard to operate and tends to jam even in moderate winds. I tried obvious stuff like changing lead angle, lower friction fairleads, etc but any suggestions are appreciated.

***We replaced all the standing and most of the running rigging.

I'm sure you have heard this on the dock, but just to reinforce, take it to Catalina (back side-Cat Harbor-anchor out there during the week), and then up to Santa Cruz, and spend a couple of weeks cruising on it up there. First trip back to SD, and your head will be full of action items.Then do it again. Check the back side of Santa Cruz some. Keep messing around out there until you feel you know what you have, what you need, and what you can live without. Both our boats had dodgers, auto pilots, full instruments, Loran (and later-GPS charts), roller furling, propane stoves, slab reefing rove, and no obvisous leaks or engine overheating/vibrations to work out. I made my own high rate regulators to get the max out of the stock 55 amp alternators, but that is archiac now. For Santa Cruz with the '87, had 120 ft of 3/8 HT chain and a 32 lb CQR on the stem, and a Danforth deepset std and 50 ft of 3/8 chain in the stern. Both boats had about 300 amp hours total battery capacity.

***We have 250' of 5/16 high test on a Rocna as our primary and 50' of 5/16 on a bruce for backup. Needed all of both in Cuyler harbor. We carry a danforth stern anchor. Similar battery capacity etc to what you describe.

That, plus handhelds, FM radio, good charts, and binoculars. Maybe LED anchor light. Make sure the foredeck bulb is good, it is high wattage compared to the steaming light at the first spreader.The Adler Barber Cold Machines ran about 12 out of 24 hours, taking about 60 amp hours with it each day. We bulked up with solid ice blocks. These are sold at Doug's general store at Catalina's Isthmus.The 38 is a Cadillac on the water, and very handsome to row up to. Oh, you have a dingy and small outboard.[/QUOTE]

***All the above. Our 10' Achilles lives on the foredeck and the 10hp outboard is mounted on the reinforced pushpit. The only thing you left off your list was the rack for surfboards...

***Next on the list is to install forespar whisker pole, simrad autopilot with octopus hydraulic ram, and some minor engine maintenance. Its all sitting in my living room right now. Down the line will be solar, increased tankage, SSB, etc.

***We are preparing her for offshore cruising. If you're interested in why or want to follow the adventures check out ryanlevinson.com and click on "blog".

 

[Charles]

roller furler

On the furler, it turned out to be a jib halyard that was not fair off the upper sheave as it connected to the upper swivel. That, plus the jib halyard was under too much tension. I dropped the jib, and increased the length of wire leader off the lower swivel, which got the foot of the jib next to the tack of the head sail totally off the bow pulpit. Then ran the jib back up at the dock, and, with no wind in the morning and with 7 x 50 binocs, got away from the boat and looked back to see the geometry at the mast head, essentially the angle the wire part of the jib halyard was taking into the sheave. A nice short run is what you want up there, so there is no tendency for the halyard to wrap around the head stay, which just locks everything up. Too much tension on the jib halyard will worsen the rotating friction on the upper swivel. Check the rotation of that swivel, and the balls in the bearing.

I will definetly read your posts of adventures....

Thanks from VA-

Charlie

 

[Ryan L]

Thank you Charlie! I was focused on the drum and had not considered that the wire halyard and/or halyard tension might be the issue. I think you may have solved my problem. I'll make the changes next week and post the results.

On the furler, it turned out to be a jib halyard that was not fair off the upper sheave as it connected to the upper swivel. That, plus the jib halyard was under too much tension. I dropped the jib, and increased the length of wire leader off the lower swivel, which got the foot of the jib next to the tack of the head sail totally off the bow pulpit. Then ran the jib back up at the dock, and, with no wind in the morning and with 7 x 50 binocs, got away from the boat and looked back to see the geometry at the mast head, essentially the angle the wire part of the jib halyard was taking into the sheave. A nice short run is what you want up there, so there is no tendency for the halyard to wrap around the head stay, which just locks everything up. Too much tension on the jib halyard will worsen the rotating friction on the upper swivel. Check the rotation of that swivel, and the balls in the bearing.

I will definetly read your posts of adventures....

Thanks from VA-

Charlie