significant water ingress to the bilges - 32-3

[Prairie Schooner]

When we purchased our boat the surveyor recommended installing one. He described its value primarily as a deterrent to rope getting caught in the space between the skeg and top of the rudder, as Captain Pete describes. To that end, I'd think it should be a good deal closer to the rudder. But we haven't put one on yet. If things go to pattern, we'll probably close that gate after some cows get out.

 

[Dave G.]

Oh, it's for the rudder...doh ! I was thinking prop fouling prevention. That makes more sense now. Not sure I would penetrate the hull to install one though. Maybe epoxy something to the bottom would work ?

 

[peaman]

The way @nquigley’s is installed, I would think a snagged line would very likely end up hung on the rudder shaft anyway. A more effective solution would be to have something very close to the rudder itself: close enough that the line could not get up on top of the rudder.

Personally, I don’t really see a need for anything. But if I did, I would consider a metal (stainless or bronze) or heavy fiberglass triangle with a flange on top for bolting into (and maybe not through-bolted) the bottom of the skeg. The triangle would be placed maybe 1/4” forward of the leading edge of the rudder. Removable for rudder work. A metal one could have a sharpened leading edge with the idea of cutting through a smaller line.

 

[Christian Williams]

Here's a 32-3 rudder. Not much gap. Also, my 381 rudder. Even less gap.

Line caught there is not a problem I have had.

Since rudders typically float, even less gap when in the water.

...

True, the leading edge opens when a balanced rudder is turned, but I don't see how any preventer fitting could protect against that.

 

[Kenneth K]

If it has a hex head on the top of it (inside the hull) can you try tightening it?

 

[peaman]

True, the leading edge opens when a balanced rudder is turned, but I don't see how any preventer fitting could protect against that.

Even worse, a preventer fitting could cause a jam, whereas a line looped on the rudder shaft might not otherwise impede rotation.

 

[Bolo]

Picture of my rope stopper is attached - a little hard to make out ... hanging down just forward of the rudder.

View attachment 51570

Just catching up on the posts for this thread but now that I've looked at everything...this is the strangest thing I've seen on an Ericson hull. I can't see any purpose for it other than a water entry point which is a problem not a purpose. I think it's been written here already but I'd like to repeat, take that thing off your hull and epoxy the hole ASAP. It serves no purpose IMO. Seems to me that an errant dock line, jib sheet or crab pot line would get caught in the prop first before it ever got to your "rope stopper". Here's are shots of my E32-3 hull at the rudder that I took after last years haul out.

 

[nquigley]

I have decided that I will have to pull the boat out to fix this problem. Probably, as Peaman suggested, I will remove the thing and do a thorough job filling the hole. In preparation for hauling out, I decided to remove the Ratitan R-6 water heater, and it’s support platform, to give enough access to that area inside the boat.
It was a heck of a process, and was only possible by using tinsnips to cut away the thin metal shell from the unit and to remove the top and bottom pans. The base of the cast-iron heating unit was 12 inches in diameter, but, as we know, the cockpit locker needs to be widened a little in order to get that thing out. There was an awful lot of rusty water inside the unit, making the area look like something from a horror film after it was out.
today, I’m going to clean up the area where the leak is to make absolutely certain that it is the only contributor to my bilge water accumulation.

 

[Christian Williams]

So maybe the leak was in the heater or its connections?

 

[nquigley]

With full access to the offending part, it’s clearly where water is coming in - about a cup per minute!
I’m planing to pull her out on Thursday.

 

[Kenneth K]

In preparation for hauling out, I decided to remove the Ratitan R-6 water heater, and it’s support platform.

Yeah, what a mess!

When I removed the support platform, I found a lot of TAFG delamination around that circular cutout:

I think the platform trapped water against the TAFG surface, which would then soak into the wood. When I re-installed the platform, I put 1/2" spacers beneath the screws so it wouldn't trap water.

I also cut the sides of the platform down a bit. It just needs to be wide enough to hold the heater--it doesn't need so much overlap on the TAFG. And it seemed dumb to thread cables and hoses through those two holes.

 

[Loren Beach]

Some discouraging news, that. Good news is that you can reformat wiring, plumbing, and add/change some glasswork to make it all a lot better.
(I have moved our boat's hot water tank location and rerouted a lot of hoses, over the years. Everything's much easier to get at nowadays.)

 

[nquigley]

Now that the heater is out, and after I fix my water leak back there, I’m going to reinstall the heater support. Now I’m looking for clever ideas for how to use that space. It won’t be for frequent access but maybe I can make use of the newfound space - which almost never happens on my boat.

 

[Bolo]

I have decided that I will have to pull the boat out to fix this problem. Probably, as Peaman suggested, I will remove the thing and do a thorough job filling the hole. In preparation for hauling out, I decided to remove the Ratitan R-6 water heater, and it’s support platform, to give enough access to that area inside the boat.
It was a heck of a process, and was only possible by using tinsnips to cut away the thin metal shell from the unit and to remove the top and bottom pans. The base of the cast-iron heating unit was 12 inches in diameter, but, as we know, the cockpit locker needs to be widened a little in order to get that thing out. There was an awful lot of rusty water inside the unit, making the area look like something from a horror film after it was out.
today, I’m going to clean up the area where the leak is to make absolutely certain that it is the only contributor to my bilge water accumulation.

Wow! Quite a mess. Looks like you butchered an animal down there! I hate to tell you this now but I was able to remove my Raritan water heater whole, on my E32-3, by just cutting a piece of the starboard locker out and making it a replicable piece with some screws for next time. It still was a job getting it out of that hole.

 

[Bolo]

With full access to the offending part, it’s clearly where water is coming in - about a cup per minute!
I’m planing to pull her out on Thursday.

You're doing the right thing getting it out of the water and fixing it right. That kind of leak is not something that should be dong halfway.

 

[nquigley]

Finally, success!
Sure, enough, when the boat was hauled out, there was a steady trickle of water running down that pin and it was very wobbly. The original caulk had hardened and lost some of its contact with the hull, and the nut was a little bit loose also. I filled the hole with fast-setting thickened epoxy, and then added a piece of fiberglass cloth above and below the filled hole. Then I laid in a couple of strips of cloth inside for good measure.
The hull was only about a half inch thick or less where the pin was installed, so any sideways force on the pin would cause it to deflect a little and probably more overtime. If the pin was lying in an inch or two of fiberglass, that would not happen. Altogether, this pin was a poor design and installation, … just waiting for a leak like this to happen. You can see water streaming down and off the pin right after it was hauled out (from a pool inside that overflowed into the bilges.

 

[Christian Williams]

I would have expected your marina in Mobile, after bottom paint and cutlass bearing replacement, to have noticed a wobbly and nonstandard pin sticking out of the hull.

But these things happen, and have happened to me--despite watching the crew, talking to them, and my usual barrage of questions.

Any haulout is like an update to an operating system. If something is to go wrong, that's when it will.

 

[windblown]

Picture of my rope stopper is attached - a little hard to make out ... hanging down just forward of the rudder.View attachment 51570

Yeah - next time the boat is out, I'll plan to remove it and properly fill the hole. Until then, hopefully I can block ingress with flexible adhesive.
Of course, I assumed this was an OEM standard fitting. I guess there were a lot of available options (up-sells ?) to new boat buyers. This thing had to be installed before the water heater and it's platform - so, probably before the hull and ceks were joined. I'm curious how many other 32-3s got this curious appendage.

I’ve got one on Tradewinds. spec’d by first owner And installed before delivery. 4” x 3/8” stainless steel. I thought we all had them. Any chance it’s a fresh water/ Great Lakes thing?

 

[nquigley]

Maybe - the first was on the Great Lakes! He retired and moved to FL, then later sold it to member at my sailing club, and I bought it from him.

 

[Christian Williams]

What's this device called? My Google search found nothing using terms like weed cutter, rudder guard and so on. These references are from Sailnet, but no brand name or production reference.

#2 · Mar 23, 2015
C&C used to insert a short stainless steel rod into the hull forward of the rudder swing radius, extending 2" down, 1/4 or 5/16 SS rod should do, drill & tap or epoxy in place, should be plenty of meat in that area

#3 · Mar 23, 2015
Our (non C&C) 40 footer had the same.. simply a pin embedded in the hull immediately ahead of the rudder's upper leading edge. Anything riding along the hull bottom would catch on the pin rather than get jammed into the gap above the rudder.