Sole Replacement Project - Ericson 28+ 1981

[standardhuman]

Hello all,

I'm in the midst of replacing the sole on my '81 E28+. I had a few soft spots that weren't getting any harder, plus some water seepage from an unknown source appearing at the bast of the galley, so here we go:

The floor came up in strips, chips, and fibers, much as has been reported on other project threads.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WbBjFOQ5ySt0O4Zp2VpMtFJr6DfRErIBmZXm78cdltk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TLibmGpyEhI/AAAAAAAAR_0/Wumtew7BOOI/s400/IMG_20101009_150613.jpg" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>

Thin teak and holly veneer over plywood. Using a chisel and mallet, it all came along pretty well. The biggest slowdowns came along the edges where the plywood was under this fiberglass overhang by a few inches on the port and stbd edges. The t&h only meets the edge of this ledge whereas the ply extends under it until it meets the hull. Because this fiberglass appears too have been laid after the floor was installed and because the ply was often in poor condition in these areas, the ply usually broke off under the ledge, leaving me to chisel, pry, and pull it out in chunks with pliers.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite#5528342207949206482"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TLid8p2cc9I/AAAAAAAASB0/uzbBOG5bLE8/s400/IMG_20101012_234032.jpg" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>
<em>Here is a section of plywood in very good shape. Note where it meets and goes under the fiberglass ledge</em>

The floor was supported at the by 6 V shaped wood blocks wedged into the bilge on the center line. These blocks were vertically supported by some hand laid thin fiberglass walls for each block and on each side of the bilge. The blocks were able to be lifted straight up and out of these tabs, leaving this thin, sharp-edged, blades sticking up all down the bilge.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite#5529557291988365474"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TLzvD2ojMKI/AAAAAAAASHA/hRwfUTaBip0/s400/IMG_20101018_175743.jpg" height="400" width="298" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>
<em>The wood center supports removed and laid next to bilge for reference</em>

At this point I want to remove both the ledge and the center tabs as they don't seem to be structurally relevant. Right now they are just an obstruction for cleaning, painting, and wood removal.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e8NDyfXu_0x1Iq07oHVm2lJr6DfRErIBmZXm78cdltk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TL3s0kF7wxI/AAAAAAAASHY/v1c7NZ0xR-g/s400/IMG_20101019_120357.jpg" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>
<em>Note the ledge at the top of the photo and the center support tabs in bilge</em>

The ledge was over the edge of the plywood and so wasn't supporting it. When I lay the new floor, it seems I'll have to either lay the play on top of this ledge (thus raising the floor height somewhat, not good), or try to measure and wedge it up under there (seems like a poor plan for easy future removal as well as for my sanity). I can't tell what the intended purpose of this ledge was...I would understand if the plywood was on top and the ledge supported the ply around the edges, but this is not the case. The ply rests on the hull under this ledge. On the other hand, it's pretty thick and well laid so it makes me think there may be a useful purpose I am overlooking.

Same goes for the center support-supports. Since I was able lift these wood support blocks up and out of the little fiberglass walls, they aren't really holding the floor down. The wood supports rest on the curvature of the hull and bilge anyway...so not really sure what the fiberglass tabs do other than keep the wood supports vertical and in place while installing the floor. If that's the case, I would rather cut and sand these fiberglass tabs off now. Later I can tack the supports together with a firing strip along the outsides if I need to secure them while laying the floor.

What do you all think? Get rid of these and get on with it? Or leave them and deal with them being a PITA?

One other strange thing: I was expecting to see keel bolt, but see none.

Photo album of project with more detailed images.

Many thanks,
Brian

 

[exoduse35]

Deal with it!

Leave it the way you found it! I suspect that what you are looking at is evidence that the designer?builder expected everything in the boat to move and shift and swell etc. As you describe it the floor is held up by the center supports and down by the ledge at the perimeter. It is not however really attached anywhere! It is meant to merely be held in place. If you were to measure the boat bow to stern in the water and then again on a sling there will be a surprising difference. therefore as a seaway will also produce this effect it must be accounted for. If you simply glue the new floor down the sea will rip apart the joint. There are other areas this is also evident. If you look closely at the bulkheads at the cabin top they just sit in a molded track there is nothing up there holding it in place but the depth of the track. So the best advice I can give is to restore it to float... It worked for 30 years last time! Edd

 

[mherrcat]

I suspect that the plywood under the teak and holly veneer was originally "tabbed" into the hull to help stiffen it; that is the "ledge" around the edges that you describe. I don't think it would be a good idea to replace the flooring without tabbing it back into the hull to maintain that structural element. You will probably have to remove the setees to do that. Why wood was used as support bracing under the floor in a bilge that was sure to get wet is puzzling but not surprising judging from some of the construction that I have seen on my boat. I would use the old braces as templates to fabricate new braces out of something else, possibly G10, and tabbing that into the hull where the old braces were. When you replace the plywood floor it would probably be a good idea to seal at least the under side with CPES epoxy to help prevent moisture intrusion.

 

[standardhuman]

Ok, I think you guys are completely correct. I forgot about the rigidity that lip can provide by using the thick plywood floor to keep the hull from "folding" along the centerline. The boat is in the water so as I walk around on the the bare bilge surfaces it's easy to remember the thin/strong/flexible/rigid qualities the glass can have.

I'm still not sure about those flaky tabs that held the little stringers upright in the bilge, but I'll work around them. Please note that the wide straps lying across the floor are not what I'm referring to, instead it's the knife-edge verticals better seen here:

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZvZvRSIMKIQ0-DxExFqUpVJr6DfRErIBmZXm78cdltk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TLzwc9lP_0I/AAAAAAAASD8/s-UurpiQA14/s400/IMG_20101018_175827.jpg" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>

See how it's sort of peeled at the top where it wasn't measured well and met the bottom of the flooring?

Anyway, on the topic of keel bolts, since I see none, I imagine those on this boat are covered...would I be correct in assuming the heavy fiberglass bands across the bilge are what are covering the bolts?
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7HpwBHeEbKD2PV-F8OM3YVJr6DfRErIBmZXm78cdltk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TL9OCfMzCTI/AAAAAAAASKs/Vw_dR_f7snU/s400/IMG_20101020_130629.jpg" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>
Just as I wrote that last sentence, I thought I would see what was in this little square shaped depression in the center of the bilge, where one of the fiberglass bands was split around it when the band was installed. I started scraping into it with a screwdriver...kept scraping and found it's 4"-5" deep and was just full of crud.

Am I missing a keel bolt?
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3wGL14Dh3HR8CvVPoDPpNlJr6DfRErIBmZXm78cdltk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_d-5ZEBxjDiw/TL9PqNbZDQI/AAAAAAAASLA/za1_cMwJVAc/s400/IMG_20101020_131734.jpg" height="300" width="400" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/standardhuman/SoleProvider?authkey=Gv1sRgCKeI3Z6gwK_zfw&feat=embedwebsite">Sole Provider</a></td></tr></table>

 

[Loren Beach]

There's nothing subtle about a row of keel bolts, and Ericson never covered any of them over on any model I have ever seen.
Suspect that yours is a model with internal ballast.

LB

 

[tenders]

I didn't realize they were still making hulls with integral keels in 1981...but I have holes a bit like that above the keel in my '69 32 and I think they are the vestiges of the holes into which lead shot was poured, around the main slabs of lead.

 

[mherrcat]

When replacing the under-floor supports in the bilge you should remove the remnants of the old tabbing for those supports and put in new, making sure to sand down the surrounding hull surfaces to get good clean fiberglass to bond to.