Standing rigging estimates?
- Thread starter Kif
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Prairie Schooner
Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Something we ran into, talking to two different riggers, was they would not replace the forestay without replacing the old, original furler. To our taste, it seemed to be working fine. They said we'd be calling them for a replacement in a few years. But, we're in the Northeast and practices may be different for you. FWIW - Jeff
EricHasAnEricson
Member II
I just re-rigged my 38-200. Total cost of materials was roughly $4000. Swaged tops and sta-lok bottoms. A couple extra parts for a removable inner forestay which bumped the price upwards as well.
I did most of the labor myself, a large fraction of that effort went into disassembling and servicing the roller furling - drilling out siezed fasteners. I can understand why some riggers might have a policy of not reusing the old furling equipment.
I did most of the labor myself, a large fraction of that effort went into disassembling and servicing the roller furling - drilling out siezed fasteners. I can understand why some riggers might have a policy of not reusing the old furling equipment.
If you plan on doing the work yourself I can highly recommend Rigging Only. https://www.riggingandhardware.com/ I paid right around 2k in 2016 for my 30+. I had the advantage of the mast being down so it was easy to measure the existing rigging. If the mast is up you can measure with a halyard and long tape measure and then just overestimate the length of wire a couple feet and use use Sta-Lok or Hayn Hi-Mod lower fittings like EricHasanEricson and cut to the correct length as you go. I was able to rehabilitate the old Pro-Furl unit that came with the boat, but I replaced it last year with a Harken MkIV Ocean unit and it has made a world of difference.
Bolo
Contributing Partner
Just to give you an estimate on the far upper end of doing a job like this, I had my mast taken down last year and completely overhauled That included just about everything except for the mast itself, the spreaders and repainting but did include cleaning up some corrosion. New sheaves, wiring, standing rigging, fasteners, turnbuckles, halyards, anchor light, steaming/fore deck light, etc., etc. Since I'm in my 70s, live 2 hours from the marina and had only a small knowledge of serous rigging work I had the refit done professionally. The final price came to about $17k. Just the labor costs were $5,000. That's right, but I wanted a top notch professional job that I could rely on without worry. Not saying that this sort of major rigging project could not be done by an owner, I just didn't feel qualified to tackle something that I needed to depend on for my well being.
Here's a short video of the mast removal if you're interested.
Here's a short video of the mast removal if you're interested.
Pete the Cat
Sustaining Member
The replacement of the stay under the roller furler is the bugger. It is probably easier to install a completely new one than all the work to set up a new stay inside a used one. Furlers can last a long time, but I had one start spitting out its bearings on a delivery--not fun. I think rigging replacement is something that is probably done not often enough by some and also too often by the obsessive---the only rigging failure I have ever had was in a recently replaced stay. So I am sort of agnostic to setting a number of years. On a 20 or 40 year old boat used even moderately, it needs to be done. I am more for regularly monitoring and inspecting what the stuff --particularly the swages--looks like annually. They can fail at any time.
Chris "Tako" Green
Member II
Have you checked out Vela Sailing for just the rigging and labor for swages? They have good pricing.
At the risk of restarting a dead thread, I have some related questions that seem maybe best placed here:
My (E34-2) standing rigging was replaced in 2016, nearly 10 years ago. Further, the Harken roller furler is now a bit balky; seems to sometimes not want to turn, especially under load (wind often 20 kts around here, 15+ even downwind home) -- unsure exactly why. Always comes unstuck with enough force. By itself, neither of these is enough to get me going, but... I would like to do more offshore, and the dream is Hawaii. I read somewhere that standing rigging should be replaced every 10 years, so that would be next year for me. A local boatyard said it would be ~ $10k after tax (pulling the mast, replacing all standing rigging), but I see @Bolo hit $17k, and on a smaller boat and possibly where labor rates are lower than the San Francisco area, and anyway, like him I'd replace all sheaves/blocks/basically anything in that mast when it was down. I also figure based on multiple comments above it would be smart to replace the furler at the same time, which would drive it up by $5k or so. Which brings me to:
--> How often do you replace standing rigging? At 10 years?
I don't remember seeing @Christian Williams mentioning doing this on his boats prior to his passages, but will admit to not having read all of the blog entries. Anyway, I don't want to be an idiot, but $20k is a lot. Curious what people do in terms of replacement interval.
PS: While I'm thinking about the furler, my boat falls at the top end of a Harken Mk IV Unit 1 and the low end of a Unit 2... given my problems with it furling under load, I would be inclined to go to the unit 2 on replacement. Is a larger furler best when it comes to a furling under load? Is Harken the go-to?
Any thoughts appreciated!
My (E34-2) standing rigging was replaced in 2016, nearly 10 years ago. Further, the Harken roller furler is now a bit balky; seems to sometimes not want to turn, especially under load (wind often 20 kts around here, 15+ even downwind home) -- unsure exactly why. Always comes unstuck with enough force. By itself, neither of these is enough to get me going, but... I would like to do more offshore, and the dream is Hawaii. I read somewhere that standing rigging should be replaced every 10 years, so that would be next year for me. A local boatyard said it would be ~ $10k after tax (pulling the mast, replacing all standing rigging), but I see @Bolo hit $17k, and on a smaller boat and possibly where labor rates are lower than the San Francisco area, and anyway, like him I'd replace all sheaves/blocks/basically anything in that mast when it was down. I also figure based on multiple comments above it would be smart to replace the furler at the same time, which would drive it up by $5k or so. Which brings me to:
--> How often do you replace standing rigging? At 10 years?
I don't remember seeing @Christian Williams mentioning doing this on his boats prior to his passages, but will admit to not having read all of the blog entries. Anyway, I don't want to be an idiot, but $20k is a lot. Curious what people do in terms of replacement interval.
PS: While I'm thinking about the furler, my boat falls at the top end of a Harken Mk IV Unit 1 and the low end of a Unit 2... given my problems with it furling under load, I would be inclined to go to the unit 2 on replacement. Is a larger furler best when it comes to a furling under load? Is Harken the go-to?
Any thoughts appreciated!
Prairie Schooner
Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
The history of shroud replacement is likely a mystery for most current owners. Personally, I rely on rig inspection by a good rigger. The emphasis is on the fittings more than the wire. Close inspection with photographs can raise doubts solved by individual replacement.
My take is that rigs fail for obvious reasons--things that could have been caught, and should have been. It depends on what you want to worry about, I guess. Old sailboats present a lot of such personality tests.
(The OP has a '73 in breezy SF Bay. What's a rigger say? I'd listen.)
My take is that rigs fail for obvious reasons--things that could have been caught, and should have been. It depends on what you want to worry about, I guess. Old sailboats present a lot of such personality tests.
(The OP has a '73 in breezy SF Bay. What's a rigger say? I'd listen.)
My experience briefly stated here: in reply #4. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/sea-breeze.517/#post-1676
This pretty much confirmed the advice I have received over four decades from several different riggers... basically to replace at 20 years in fresh water conditions and 10-ish years in salt water environments.
I think that most/all of us view rigging thru a lens of "not broke, so don't fix" viewpoint -- to put off the hassle and the expenditure as long as possible.
Given that the basic rig is indeed spec'd out with a lot of reserve strength, they will last a long time. BTW, our first new rig was done not too long after bringing our boat home by truck from Alameda. I found a meat hook in one shroud, consulted a rigger, and had all wire and turnbuckles replaced.
(While our boat was not old in years at the time, it had been used hard and often for three years in a big sailing club in SF, so the factory rig likely had the equivalent usage in salt water of well over a decade or more.)
Unlike many sailors, thanks to my dismasting-interrupted deliver sail, I have actually seen the corrosion down inside the swage fitting where the wire broke. This was after we jettisoned the hair-pinned mast and motored back to port. There was no way to have seen this developing flaw beforehand. So "time" is indeed a valid measurement for rig integrity.
That's my thought on the subject, and as the wonderful Mrs. Slocum character used to proclaim loudly on that department store Brit-Com, "I am unanimous in my opinion!"
This pretty much confirmed the advice I have received over four decades from several different riggers... basically to replace at 20 years in fresh water conditions and 10-ish years in salt water environments.
I think that most/all of us view rigging thru a lens of "not broke, so don't fix" viewpoint -- to put off the hassle and the expenditure as long as possible.
Given that the basic rig is indeed spec'd out with a lot of reserve strength, they will last a long time. BTW, our first new rig was done not too long after bringing our boat home by truck from Alameda. I found a meat hook in one shroud, consulted a rigger, and had all wire and turnbuckles replaced.
(While our boat was not old in years at the time, it had been used hard and often for three years in a big sailing club in SF, so the factory rig likely had the equivalent usage in salt water of well over a decade or more.)
Unlike many sailors, thanks to my dismasting-interrupted deliver sail, I have actually seen the corrosion down inside the swage fitting where the wire broke. This was after we jettisoned the hair-pinned mast and motored back to port. There was no way to have seen this developing flaw beforehand. So "time" is indeed a valid measurement for rig integrity.
That's my thought on the subject, and as the wonderful Mrs. Slocum character used to proclaim loudly on that department store Brit-Com, "I am unanimous in my opinion!"
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Dave G.
1984 E30+ (SOLD)
Firstly, Harken furlers(maybe most brands?) are not really designed to furl under heavy load. Even a furler that works effortlessly at the dock will struggle under load of 15kts at sea. How well does it work without a load at the dock ? The things you can check easily are halyard tension and the furler line condition and size. Brittle or worn fuzzy line will place a lot of resistance on the system. I also have found that the thinnest line I can comfortably handle (8mm for me) worked best. The last thing to check would be forestay tension, if it's too loose it will cause the foils to bow and.. well you get the picture. The 34-2 is a masthead rig so check that your backstay is tensioned to spec. Just my 2 cents sitting here on the couch
"Are you being served?" One of our favorites.
AdventurousAnton
Member III
Ahoy from Alameda!
We just purchased (nah, we stole her!) our Ericson 30+ back in August, and I had a rigger buddy of mine here on the Island do an inspection. He gave it a good five years worth of weekend sailing, but possibly less given the winds I like to sail on SF Bay (I'm insane, I know). We're almost always "windy" to a certain extent here and offshore (especially), so I'd have a full rig inspection done from a reputable guy/company/yard, and then get three more opinions!
Bolo
Contributing Partner
My original estimate (after an extensive rigging inspection which pointed out that the rigging had never been replaced on my 1987 boat) was less than $17k actually but I kept adding things to the job like repairing mast corrosion, replacing all of the halyards, wiring, new VHF antenna, anchor/deck lights, masthead unit, windex and more….in short everything except for the mast, spreaders and furler which was still working well so I saw no need for it’s replacement. On top of all that, Annapolis is not the cheapest place for marine services. I found that out when I priced out new cushions for the boat which led me to making my own. But considering my age, distance from the boat to my home, my inexperience with serious rigging, and wanting something that I could trust more in a big blow because my life could depend on it…I decided on using pros that I could complain to if things didn’t look, feel or work right after the job was done. That’s in fact what did happen resulting in three more trips up the mast. Of course there was no charge for those return visits.
If I were younger and lived closer to the marine I would definitely had done the work myself or most of it. But you have to play the cards you’re holding at the time. There were a few times last sailing season when the wind really picked up on the bay and scared everyone else on the the boat except me (I’m sure you can relate to that) but I was feeling confident with professional rigging job or maybe I was just fooling myself. After all, even a pro can make a mistake, right? Hmmm?