Starting Atomic 4

[Jarod]

Ok Folks no laughing haha...k I am almost ready to put my new to me Ericson 27 into the water. I have never started the engine as the boat has been out of the water the entire time. The boat was started for the surveyor and he stated that it sounded fine to him. The problem I have is the boat yard where I am at is a busy one to say the least ...it is pretty much one boat after another.....so I dont want to be messing around getting in someones way when they are trying to drop or lift another boat. I assume the starting procedure for this boat is basic, but I want to know I am doing everything right as there will not be alot of time to get the boat out of the way...please give me the details....I see the battery switch with 1/2/both and off and the key...and what appears to be a choke knob...black knob pulls in and out...please advise...

thanks jarod

 

[Seth]

Start your engines

Batteries: BOTH
Blower: ON-Wait a minute or 2 and sniff blower vents to be sure no fumes are present.
Choke: ON (if engine is cold, or is first start of the day. Later starts won't need as much or any choke)
Throttle: about 1/4
Ignition: START-when engine starts, adjust to sensible idle. If oil pressure gauge is installed-check for pressure immediately. Look over the side to verify water is pumping out of the engine. Warm up for 2-3 minutes-and ease choke back to OFF. (if no water pumping, TURN OFF!)
OPTIONAL: Batteries to 1 or 2 while powering. This depends on how you like to manage your electrical power.

If you have oil temp, press and water temp. gauges, check for proper temp/press. range, and if "in the green": you are good to go.

Guys, what did I miss?

S

 

[Art Mullinax]

Remove engine cover.

Since it's not been started in a while, it may be a good idea to remove the engine cover to make sure there are no rats, birds or other critters living there as well as bee's nests in open drain lines. Also, look for sparks from loose wires, smoke from frozen pulleys, or broken belts, or gas spewing from a loose connection. If at all possible, connect a water hose to the seawater inlet and start it on the hard. Make sure it will run before dropping her in the water...

 

[dave_g]

If the engine does not start within 3-4 tries, STOP.

Without the engine running, the exhaust water could backflow into the engine through the exhaust valves. One way to prevent this is to keep the seacock closed, and open it immediately after the engine starts.

 

[rgoff]

I use full choke when starting, but then back it off some for "warm up". I would imagine that this depends on how well the engine runs. Mine runs great.

 

[NateHanson]

I'd definitely reccomend putting your raw intake hose in a bucket of water, and starting it on the hard. It's much nicer to know that when the lift drops you in, you'll be good to go.

A five-gallon bucket of water will last you about a minute of run-time. You can have a hose on hand to keep the bucket full if you want to run longer. I'm a little wary of hooking a hose with 60 pounds of water pressure up to an inlet that's used to getting 5 pounds of water pressure from the seacock, so I've always used a bucket. Am I overthinking that? I notice most people just clamp a garden hose in the intake.

 

[Joe Benedict]

I agree with Nate and have used the bucket method with hose every year. I would suggest putting a towel or something over the exhaust to avoid spraying neighbors. STAY AWAY FROM THE PROP - NEUTRAL CAN STICK!

 

[Jarod]

ok so I just remove the hose from the engine intake thru hull and put it in a bucket of water?....on my 74 ericson 27 the thru hull and valve are located on the port side of the engine and to the rear of the sink...i know i cannot fit a decent sized bucket in there....so i am assuming the hose can be easily threaded back to the engine compartment and out the front to access the bucket?

thanks

 

[Joe Benedict]

What I do is take the spare length of hose I keep in the spares locker (hint) and hook it up to the engine side of the intake hose. The hose is also used to help winterize the engine.

 

[Jarod]

Attempted to start last night

well I went out to try and start the beast utilizing the bucket for cooling...however the batteries seem stone cold dead. I took one down to the shop to have it tested and it is stating that it is fully charged but essentially no good anymore. I have two batteries in my setup the one i took in is the starting battery I am assuming as it is first in the chain and nearest to the engine. I guess my question is should I purchase another deep cycle same as the dead original...or should i buy a marine starting battery for starting purposes...I was always under the impression deep cycle was for lights pumps etc and the starting battery should be of the starting variety and not a deep cycle, please advise.

 

[rgoff]

You should have a switch that allows you to connect either of the batteries or both to your electrical system. On my E27 with A4, all power for starting and running stuff is connected to the "output" of this switch. It is located on the sink side of the engine area, above the engine cover. Positions are marked "1", "2", "Both".

I've always just used 2 "marine deep discharge" batteries in my setup with an A4 and never had any problems. My A4 starts so quickly I don't think it makes a difference. Plus, with 2 "marine" batteries in parallel you have more capacity for lights, radio, etc. at anchor.

Good luck,

 

[NateHanson]

So your battery holds a 14 volt charge, but when a load is put on it it drops way down, is that right? Or are you concluding that the battery is no good because it didn't turn the engine over?

In the future, you can do some diagnostics on the boat. Test the voltage of the battery at the battery terminals when cranking (or trying to crank). If that drops the battery is mostly done for.

But if it stays around 13 volts the battery's not the problem.

Check the voltage at the big positive post on the starter motor. That should be above 13 volts when not cranking, and if it drops a lot when you crank the engine, then you've got a wiring or connection problem between the battery and the starter.

That's some basic detective work. Also, I wouldn't assume that the starting battery is the one closest to the engine. Trace the wiring back to your main battery selector switch, and mark the batteries 1 and 2. Set the switch to "BOTH" if you're having trouble cranking the engine.

 

[Jim Mobley]

Pushing the Button?

Are you pushing the starter button or twisting the key? Sorry, I know this sounds insulting, but I chased my own tail for a minute or two one day when I was distracted and forgot that I wasn't starting my car. The key switch is just an on-off switch, you have to push the starter button to crank the engine.

Couple of other notes:

1) Throttle linkages vary, on my engine 1/4 throttle would be too much. I pull the lever to idle and then just barely "bump" it open for starting.

2) Direct-drive Atomic 4s don't have a well defined neutral. Your boat may want to move forward or aft after the engine is started, so be aware of this.

 

[Jarod]

not insulting at all jim

but if i have a button where in the heck is it all i see is the key?...and also the cabin lights etc are not working....i tried them to see what was going on there to see if they had power...what i meant earlier is the shop put the battery on the charger and it charged but there tester was saying the battery was no good....not too sure what to believe there...

 

[NateHanson]

Did the key have a momentary-switch action? (like your car, where you push against a spring when turning the key to the last stop, and when you let go, the key returns from the "start" position back to the "run" position).

If the key turned like a car key, then you don't have a separate starter button.

If the battery had a charge, but the lights aren't working, I wonder if you've got the main battery switch on? Again, not meaning to state the obvious, but just trying to trouble-shoot.

It would also be explained by the batteries all being dead, which is believeable if they were on the boat without a float charge for the winter.

Nate

 

[Jarod]

i believe the key is like you describe ...it seems to go forward a quarter turn and then spring back once i release...i believe that when i did this i saw a slight movement of the needle on the guage on the panel...does this indicate that it was drawing a bit more on my "dead" batteries or what i assume are dead batteries...i should also add that when i first got the boat a month ago i tried the cabin lights and they did work...so that would indicate that either they died from sitting or i may have left something on???

 

[Loren Beach]

I do not know much about the A4 E-27, other than crewing a few races on one, but... I have learned that starting problems in cars and boats often stem from poor connections.
Don't ask me how I learned this.

Note that 12 volts is not very much "potential" even on a good day, although it is a lot better than the 6 volt systems of our fathers' cars.
You could have a second person help you -- one person tries the key switch and the other systematically checks for voltage at each point in the system with a volt meter. You would start at the plus terminal and work your way through to the minus terminal. This would take time, and at best would eventually lead to plan B. Might be just as well start with plan B: starting at the battery, remove and clean-to-shiny every electrical connection and re-secure it.
One most 12 volt systems this will make a difference in starting... and everywhere else.

It is amazing/confounding just how little corrosion and dirt it takes to reduce that 12 volts to a non-productive level. Remember that the DC has to not only get to the starter, but all the way back home. Those ground connections on the block, etc. all need the same treatment.
This may not be the problem, but it never hurts to start trouble shooting at the most basic level.

Loren

 

[jkenan]

Also remember the starting solenoid mounted to your starter delivers less than 12 volts to the coil during normal running operation (solenoid and coil are designed this way). When cranking the engine, there is a significant voltage drop, which is why there is an 'R' terminal on your solenoid. If you connect this 'R' terminal to the positive terminal on your coil, when you start, you will deliver your battery's full voltage potential to the coil (which is less than 12volts at that moment because you are cranking, but more than what the 'S' terminal is able to put out). After the engine starts and you release the start button, voltage from 'R' stops and 'S' resumes it's normal output to the coil.

Some starting problems can be resolved this way.

Hope this helps.

John

 

[hcpookie]

What I do is take the spare length of hose I keep in the spares locker (hint) and hook it up to the engine side of the intake hose. The hose is also used to help winterize the engine.

Jarod I would second Joe's advice, and state further that you can hook up a T-fitting and a valve on the T to let you switch between raw water intake and the bucket. If you look on the moyer marine A4 website, there are a few threads about it and a really good pic. The pic shows the guy ran the T hose to the front of the engine compartment and mounted the valve to the side of the engine compartment. The thread suggested that was for an "after sail" engine flush to keep salt water from sitting there for long periods of time - something that may have long-term benefit.

 

[hcpookie]

I'm trying to follow on this thread and I can say that if your E27 is like mine, then there is no starting switch, it starts just like a car. A very cranky, stubborn car. I've gotta say that checking for corroded terminals gets my vote too. Relatively clean contact is the name of the game! If the terminals have a grease over them they are probably OK because that grease is supposed to prevent corrosion of the exposed wires. BUT it is good to check anyway.

well I went out to try and start the beast utilizing the bucket for cooling...however the batteries seem stone cold dead. I took one down to the shop to have it tested and it is stating that it is fully charged but essentially no good anymore.

To be clear, what did the shop say? Did they say it doesnt' hold a charge? As was stated before, if the battery doesn't HOLD a charge during cranking then it's ready to be thrown away.

I have two batteries in my setup the one i took in is the starting battery I am assuming as it is first in the chain and nearest to the engine.
I guess my question is should I purchase another deep cycle same as the dead original...or should i buy a marine starting battery for starting purposes...I was always under the impression deep cycle was for lights pumps etc and the starting battery should be of the starting variety and not a deep cycle, please advise.

When I had to replace a battery, I told the guy at WM "whatever it takes", and he told me that a deep cycle battery would be good for pumps, etc, like you state, and that for normal use a "standard" battery would give more bang for the buck. The way he told me was that a deep cycle will discharge more quickly over long burn times (like with lights & stuff) than would a normal marine battery. FWIW. I've had good results so far with the normal marine batteries from WM (the green label ones).