Staysail on E34

[rasmus]

Hi, could you please advise how staysail should be rigged on E34. I have a staysail and one person suggested to attach tack to a hook on bow pulpit (anchor roller) and just raise it with a staysail halyard. I looked at the sail and it has a luff tape. I always hoisted headsail with luff attached to something, so was wandering what other people think on this matter.
Attaching it to forestay does not make sense, especially that staysail halyard is partial rig.
Thanks and please let me know how you do it.

 

[Loren Beach]

What year Ericson 34 do you sail?
And, does your boat have an inner stay? I have not seen an 80's E-34 with such a stay.
(It is possible that the earlier 70's E-34 might have been rigged with an inner stay, to go with their large fore triangle.)
Thanks,
Loren

 

[rasmus]

What year Ericson 34 do you sail?

It is E34 1987

And, does your boat have an inner stay?

No, it does not.

 

[bgary]

I don't know specifics for an E34 but, in general a modern genoa-staysail is tacked on the centerline about 30% back from the headstay. It's not uncommon for the genoa staysail to be raised on a topping lift rather than a masthead halyard - ideally, the luffs of the genoa and staysail should be approximately parallel in order to optimize the "slot".



Spinnaker staysails are also generally tacked back from the bow, but are often raised on masthead halyards.

It's not uncommon for racing or casual-use staysails to have their own luff-wire and to be raised without being attached to any sort of stay. For offshore, staysails may be hanked onto a separate stay (a solent or similar)

$.02

 

[supersailor]

The E-34 is not equipped to carry a staysail. That partial rig staysail halyard is actually the spinnaker pole topping lift. Adding a staysail adds a lot of complication without much if any gain. In an area like ours where we tack a lot, it is a real pain. I don't see any speed gains on the 34 and wouldn't add one to my boat. Should you decide to add one, you will have to reinforce the deck where the staysail stay terminates (right about where the anchor locker is) and add a tang where the topping lift is and figure out how to tack that big jib.

 

[supersailor]

Thinking on your staysail question, does your staysail look like this. If it does, it flies in place of the larger jib in heavy weather. We call this a "70" but it is really a baby Genoa for the 34. It works very well in the 25-40 range and also roller furels. Above about 25, I use this sail with no main.

 

[rasmus]

The E-34 is not equipped to carry a staysail. That partial rig staysail halyard is actually the spinnaker pole topping lift. Adding a staysail adds a lot of complication without much if any gain. In an area like ours where we tack a lot, it is a real pain. I don't see any speed gains on the 34 and wouldn't add one to my boat. Should you decide to add one, you will have to reinforce the deck where the staysail stay terminates (right about where the anchor locker is) and add a tang where the topping lift is and figure out how to tack that big jib.

Hi Bob, but the E34 manual says that this is staysay/hopping lift, I use it mainly to hold a pole, but still trying to figure out staysail part. there are also 2 hooks on bow sprit/(anchor roller) and I'm not sure what they are for either.

 

[rasmus]

Thinking on your staysail question, does your staysail look like this. If it does, it flies in place of the larger jib in heavy weather. We call this a "70" but it is really a baby Genoa for the 34. It works very well in the 25-40 range and also roller furels. Above about 25, I use this sail with no main. View attachment 21471

Hi Bob, it has luff tape, but no UV strip, so I would not want to keep on headstay. Yes, I can lower Genoa and hoist Staysail instead. I assume it will look like the one on the picture.

Do you think attaching tack to one of the hooks on bowsprit and hoisting with staisail halyard would work? Oh and I do not plan to use Genoa and Staysail at the same time, maybe in a future when going downwind I can raise it into a second track and put down main.

 

[Loren Beach]

Hi Bob, it has luff tape, but no UV strip, so I would not want to keep on headstay. Yes, I can lower Genoa and hoist Staysail instead. I assume it will look like the one on the picture.

Do you think attaching tack to one of the hooks on bowsprit and hoisting with staisail halyard would work? Oh and I do not plan to use Genoa and Staysail at the same time, maybe in a future when going downwind I can raise it into a second track and put down main.

You may need to clarify the terminology a bit. Those "tack hooks" you see on either side of the forestay attachment are for capturing the tack cringle of your head sail. This is used if the boat is not equipped with a furling system.

There is really no inexpensive or really logical way to run a double-headsail rig on your model. Doesn't mean it cannot be done.... but first you'd need to justify it.
Your rig is similar to the rig on Christian's prior E-32/3 that he sailed solo to HI and back. I would posit that you have no need for any sort of inner headstay and just need to start getting in lots of sailing time and become familiar with your boat.

Sail selection is the one place where I would suggest a change in the "way we learn to do things" nowadays over the 80's when this boat was designed.
A lot of sailors still believe that large overlapping headsails are required because "racers" used to have to fly a 150 when racing.
While those big sails are indeed good in really light air, your easily-driven hull form will likely perform perfectly with about a 110 full hoist furling jib with modern vertical battens. Yes. Really.
Since we went from the "just like every other sail boat average size" 135 genny to a modern 95, we have lost only a little speed in under-8-knots-true, and it works wonderfully well past 20 kts true when we reef the main.

And further, when you mention running twin head sails running downwind, this is certainly do-able when reeling off the days sailing down to Tahiti, and I have some friends now visiting in NZ, that did this a lot on their voyage so far. This takes some other running rigging changes, however.
They built a "twizzle rig" for their Jason 35, and it was a great success.

As a new owner with a learning curve ahead, any sort of rig changes would seem like something for the future after you get in significant ocean time with your stock boat. It was designed for open water, after all.

Regards,
Loren

 

[rasmus]

There is really no inexpensive or really logical way to run a double-headsail rig on your model. Doesn't mean it cannot be done.... but first you'd need to justify it.
Your rig is similar to the rig on Christian's prior E-32/3 that he sailed solo to HI and back. I would posit that you have no need for any sort of inner headstay and just need to start getting in lots of sailing time and become familiar with your boat.

I do not plan to modify rigging anytime soon, I just wanted to understand how Bruce King intended to use Staysail with E34 as it came from the yard. What puzzles me is that E34 manual mentions that spinnaker pole halyard can be used for staystail hoisting halyard, but no instruction how, so my intention to understand how to do it at least in theory. I've got one suggestion that I plan to try, but so far only one.
I agree, I need to learn and practice a lot, but for that, I need to understand the theory part first so I can apply it and see what works and what not. Hence the question to E34 owners, how to raise staysail, without any modifications.

You may need to clarify the terminology a bit. Those "tack hooks" you see on either side of the forestay attachment are for capturing the tack cringle of your head sail. This is used if the boat is not equipped with a furling system.

Awesome! so now I know that those "tack hooks" are indeed were designed to to attach headsail tack to. I have furling system and it was not very obvious to me. Thank you for this clarification.

 

[supersailor]

Hi Bob, it has luff tape, but no UV strip, so I would not want to keep on headstay. Yes, I can lower Genoa and hoist Staysail instead. I assume it will look like the one on the picture.

Do you think attaching tack to one of the hooks on bowsprit and hoisting with staisail halyard would work? Oh and I do not plan to use Genoa and Staysail at the same time, maybe in a future when going downwind I can raise it into a second track and put down main.[/QUOTE

Please excuse the slow reply here. I had some stuff going on with the boat recovery, the wife's broken car and now a new future foredeck hand. At only 20" tall, it will be awhile before he can reach the spinnaker pole bail. We are currently in another State for the birth.

The small jib thing is a problem. To fly the small jib, the big one needs to disappear, Taking it off the track is a pain. Especially so if the wind is already up. Usually, I have changed it when the forecast is for really nasty conditions. The boat really does sail well in heavier conditions with this sail with or without the reefed main. The wife likes it for ease of handling but I like the raw performance of the large genny. I would never put a staysail genoa combo on my boat as the slot is cut down to two inefficient small slots. That said, a friend has a Baba 30 (a boat that does not go to windward) that has a inner forestay that removes with a flip of a leaver and stows back at the mast when not in use. When needed, you hook it onto a ring on the deck and snap the lever down. Slick! It would mean changing the small sail and the storm sail over to hanks but it would mean you could furl the genny, snap the inner stay on and hank on a small sail. I don't think hoisting the sail without a stay in heavy weather would work. I've seen the strain at 45knts of wind. It would work for a drifter. also those tack cringles are way too low for a heavy weather sail and a tag cable would tend to fall off them. They were meant for a hanked on 130 or 150 genny.

I'll play with this idea when I get everything else finished. I need to hurry as the new cushions are finished and I have all of the interior teak sanded down but not varnished.

 

[p.gazibara]

I may be able to chime in here. Although my rig is not standard Ericson, my stormsail is flown off my topping lift halyard.

Cinderella has a pretty beefy padeye about 2 feet aft if the forestry termination. The padeye has about a 12" x 12" backing plate and also has a stainless steel wire that extends at the foot of the v berth to a padeye glassed to the hull.

My stormsail has a wire luff, the foot is clipped to the padeye on the deck and the luff tension is managed my the spinnaker pole lift.

I have used it before a few times, once playing around as a cutter rig in light air and once in a decent blow.

To use it properly I imagine you need checkstays to support the mast. I didn't have them, but I didn't know as much about rig tension at the time either. (I later found out my rig is supposed to have runners and I am putting them back on as part of my rig inspection)

For the record, a big jib is a much better option than running the boat as a cutter. I'd imagine you would want to use it mainly for big winds.

 

[tmjkelley]

Would a genaker work on an E34?

 

[rasmus]

Would a genaker work on an E34?

Hi tmjkelley, yep. I use mine of the anchor roller. There are two likes I use, one with a block, and the other through the block to control highlight of the tack.
There is another setup I did not try yet, but going at some point. Over the winter my north sails rep gave me similar thing like the ant tacker. (check it out. http://www.atninc.com/atn-tacker-sailing-equipment.shtml) E34 has 2 tack hooks on the anchor roller, I was told that those are for a tack, if you do not have a furler. so you attach a block and then a line to control hight of a tack, then attach genaker tack to the tacker like on the image. I asked the rep if this setup is going to chafe through UV cover, but he assured me that the tacker on the inside has slick material and should not cause any problems to UV cover.