Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
By what percentage did yours go up?
-
Untitled Document Join us on November 22nd, 7pm EDT
for the CBEC Virtual Meeting
Adventures & Follies
All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the people you've met online!
See the link below for login credentials and join us!
(dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)
Stunned by insurance increase!
- Thread starter Alan Gomes
- Start date
Which is unethical. That word -agreed- has a meaning, legally speaking.This begs the question that if they would violate that part of your contract, they may just as casually refuse to pay for a loss someday........
supersailor
Contributing Partner
I don't know about Illinois but California is in the middle of an insurance crises. Several national insurance companies have stopped insuring homes in the state so check your homeowners insurance also. I sure it's rubbing off on the boat policies also.
william.haas
1990 Ericson 28-2
A 30% increase from 2020-21 to 2023-24. The agreed value in that same time period went down 11%. I did speak with them yesterday and mentioned my rigging project (new standing and running) and the representative suggested submitting the documentation (invoice) to their team which may result in an increase to the agreed value. I will report back on how that request turns out.
As I have tried to point out, that violates your contract. The contracted 'value' does not just "go down" without both parties agreeing to a new value. Do not do business with a company that regularly invites its customers to sue them over compliance.
Please note that this is a separate issue from determining the dollar amount that you pay for XX amount of coverage, and more important.
Last edited:
william.haas
1990 Ericson 28-2
In my opinion, if they had changed the policy terms mid-term (in my case a one year period), I would agree with you that it would be a violation of contract. At the time of renewal, an insurance company can change whatever terms they want and a customer can agree with those terms by binding the policy and effectively entering into a new contract or just move on. This is why it is best practice to read through the policy language paying particular attention to exclusions and other items that may not be covered or fully covered in the event of a loss. This is also why some auto carriers only provide a policy with a six month maximum term, as it gives them more opportunities to change terms, raise premiums, etc. I have a little secondhand knowledge on this topic - the Admiral leads sales, strategy, and training in North America for one of the world's largest insurance companies.
Now that I have mentioned a best practice, I admit I should have followed that as opposed to using the set it and forget it auto-pay feature.
Now that I have mentioned a best practice, I admit I should have followed that as opposed to using the set it and forget it auto-pay feature.
You are correct about their way they make changes to what most of us view as routine boiler plate in these small-print long-form documents when we get the annual renewal notice. There should be a way to force them to highlight policy changes on page one, tho, IMHO.
william.haas
1990 Ericson 28-2
After submitting documentation of my recent rigging project the insurer increased my assessed value 14% over the reduced value and to a level that is now higher than what was agreed to in prior policy terms and noted in the last survey I had. Yes, the premium did increase but by a negligible amount.
I'm not so surprised, or upset, over decreases in the "agreed value." I only ever assumed that the "agreement" was made at the initiation of coverage. At that time, the insurer usually asks for a survey, and the owner squabbles if he thinks the boat is worth more. Then an agreed value is reached.
After coverage is initiated, the VAST majority of boats will depreciate significantly over time as age takes it's toll. Insurance is a probability game so the insurer is correct that, by-and-large, boat values decrease yearly.
If you're one of the exceptions-to-the-rule, as many here are, who has improved his boat over time, the insurance company has no way of knowing this until you formally notify them. I don't see that as an undue burden since, again, its an exception to the general rule. It seems reasonable that an insurer would then ask for proof of improvements, or perhaps even a new survey before making an upward value revision against their preset depreciation assumptions.
Insurance is a for-profit business, not a social program, I'd prefer that my insurer lowers most other peoples "agreed values" regularly (that's just sound business) and I'll worry about increasing my agreed value after I've made substantial improvements.
After coverage is initiated, the VAST majority of boats will depreciate significantly over time as age takes it's toll. Insurance is a probability game so the insurer is correct that, by-and-large, boat values decrease yearly.
If you're one of the exceptions-to-the-rule, as many here are, who has improved his boat over time, the insurance company has no way of knowing this until you formally notify them. I don't see that as an undue burden since, again, its an exception to the general rule. It seems reasonable that an insurer would then ask for proof of improvements, or perhaps even a new survey before making an upward value revision against their preset depreciation assumptions.
Insurance is a for-profit business, not a social program, I'd prefer that my insurer lowers most other peoples "agreed values" regularly (that's just sound business) and I'll worry about increasing my agreed value after I've made substantial improvements.
That's better (or maybe not) than mine. I had GEICO and was informed that they had decided to exit the recreational-marine market, and that my policy was being canceled at the end of the term. So I had about 2 months to find something new. Insurance broker (NovaMar, highly recommend) got me a policy with Progressive. Better coverage, better cruising range, and less money.
B
Prairie Schooner
Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Our EVPBO (Executive Vice President of Being Organized), Donna, keeps detailed records of all expenditures for just this reason. The insurance company told her that only monies paid for materials can be applied to increased agreed value, not labor. We use Progressive. She was able to establish a new much higher agreed value after all our work, without submitting all that information. Of course the premium went up. If we make a claim, however, we'll have to pull all that data out to prove the higher value.
bsangs
E35-3 - New Jersey
Really? I currently have GEICO (through BoatUS) for my insurance and have not been told this. Is this a slow phase out?
I'm not sure. I was originally notified in Oct-2021 that my GEICO policy would not be renewed. It turns out it was renewed for another year, due to lawsuits from US states saying that the notice of non-renewal was insufficient.
In Oct-2022, I got a cancellation notice from them. NovaMar said "Geico is no longer working with agents. Which is fine as they have been making major changes to their boat/yacht program. They are no longer insuring boats over 50’ LOA, no wood boats, no boats over 30 yrs old, no multihulls, charter program cancelled etc. Claims staff with marine experience all gone. Sadly they are a different company than we were used to working with. "
My guess (?) is that GEICO has some sort of deal with BoatUS which is in some way different than the way they work with agents. Or something.
Bruce
I did a bit of searching online about BoatUS, and found this succinct quote: "Geico's parent company, Berkshire Hathaway, bought BoatUS in 2007 and transferred ownership to Geico in 2017."
Sounds about right because Geico (operating as insurer for BoatUS) reduced our "agreed value" when renewed in 2017, IIRC. Since others here have pointed out my reasoning flaw ( that their action did not violate our previous existing one year contract) when I stupidly did not read all the small print in my annual auto-renewal, that's on me. Their actions were not very ethical, but, oh well.
Since then, I have also read about the supposed slow-rolling decision by Geico to exit the marine market, but perhaps that was not really a given, just some internal gossip that leaked out. (?) My SWAG is that by shortening up the age limit for insurability of a boat, they are incrementally reducing their marine insurance "book". In my last phone conversation with a representative of BoatUS/Geico, I was told that because I was a preexisting customer, the age of my boat would not disqualify me. When we installed the new engine they *did* increase the insured value by the amount ($10K) of the cost of the power train in the crate.
Ultimately, I decided that they would never keep their word and could not be trusted like the former reputation of BoatUS when it ran its own insurance program, which was excellent.
As the saying goes: "YMMV"....
Sounds about right because Geico (operating as insurer for BoatUS) reduced our "agreed value" when renewed in 2017, IIRC. Since others here have pointed out my reasoning flaw ( that their action did not violate our previous existing one year contract) when I stupidly did not read all the small print in my annual auto-renewal, that's on me. Their actions were not very ethical, but, oh well.
Since then, I have also read about the supposed slow-rolling decision by Geico to exit the marine market, but perhaps that was not really a given, just some internal gossip that leaked out. (?) My SWAG is that by shortening up the age limit for insurability of a boat, they are incrementally reducing their marine insurance "book". In my last phone conversation with a representative of BoatUS/Geico, I was told that because I was a preexisting customer, the age of my boat would not disqualify me. When we installed the new engine they *did* increase the insured value by the amount ($10K) of the cost of the power train in the crate.
Ultimately, I decided that they would never keep their word and could not be trusted like the former reputation of BoatUS when it ran its own insurance program, which was excellent.
As the saying goes: "YMMV"....
RedDog
Member II
So where do I get insurance for my E35 Mk2 from 1972? I'm getting thrown out of Daytona Marina and Boat Works for not having insurance.
Your bio indicates that you are in a part of the country with some higher risks for insurance company payouts. Since a hurricane does not discriminate between newer and old vessels, it would seem like you just have to find an insurer that is willing to do business in your geographic area. My problems were minor in comparison, but finding a good agent was my solution. I wonder if you need to do the same? My agent is in Seattle WA, so perhaps the best they could do is refer you to someone closer to you, would be my uninformed guess. https://boatinsurance.net/yachts.php
Apropos of Whatever, I would wonder if the manager of your marina would pass along names of insurers, since they must see copies of all the policies as the companies send/email them the proof of insurance for each vessel. (?)
Sounds like you're in a fix, and sympathy is about all we can offer from so far away.
RedDog
Member II
Thank you. These folks at Daytona Marina & Boat Works are really harassing me about insurance. They know they cannot just cast my boat out into the ICW so they can just suck it up and chill. Even Haggarty won't in sure a boat more than 50 years old, My '72 E35Mk2 is 51 :-(Your bio indicates that you are in a part of the country with some higher risks for insurance company payouts. Since a hurricane does not discriminate between newer and old vessels, it would seem like you just have to find an insurer that is willing to do business in your geographic area. My problems were minor in comparison, but finding a good agent was my solution. I wonder if you need to do the same? My agent is in Seattle WA, so perhaps the best they could do is refer you to someone closer to you, would be my uninformed guess. https://boatinsurance.net/yachts.php
Apropos of Whatever, I would wonder if the manager of your marina would pass along names of insurers, since they must see copies of all the policies as the companies send/email them the proof of insurance for each vessel. (?)
Sounds like you're in a fix, and sympathy is about all we can offer from so far away.