The Rudder and the River

[Joe]

It's an awful business admitting stupidity in public, but here goes:

My wife an I have just bought an old Ericson 25 CB and the PO took us out for our very first sailing lesson today. We learned how to coast in and out of the slip using the outboard and did some sailing.

After he left we went out on our own. On the way back we drifted into a sand bank with the rudder still fully lowered. There was a sickening crunch and the rudder appeared to come loose. The photograph of the damage is attached.

As a complete neophyte I notice the following:

a) It had happened more than once before by the different colors and patches in the bracket area.

b) from the bolts appearance there were not any nuts on the inside of the hull (unreachable) and they had apparently been epoxied in place from the outside.

c) So, the fitting had some lateral strength, but not much fore/aft strength.

When I have it repaired next week, is there a better way to attach the the bracket? I would be most appreciative of any advice.

Also, I may just have a temporary repair done (or do it myself) to get some sailing training done before season end and then have a permanent repair done over winter.

 

[rssailor]

Rudder repair

I would not mess around with this. As damage to that area down low could cause problems with water intrusion and potentially to the structure of the transom. Fixing the attachment point and reinforcing this area would be a good thing to do. Do what you need to do, but get it fixed right or learn to fix it right yourself. Also maybe you might want to look into a basic sailing class as well. Good luck. Ryan

 

[Chad and Sandy]

E25 rudder repair

Hi Joe,

Sorry to hear about your rudder problems. I to own an old E25 cb of the '77 vintage and sail on the Mississippi (Lake Onalaska) near La Crosse, Ws. This lake was once farmland before the lock and dam system went in back in the 30's. Needles to say we have stump fields, old foundations, ect. that like to eat fixed rudders for breakfast. My suggestion is to get or make a kick-up rudder. If you don't, I have a feelling that this will happen again. I didn't think I could do a good job of making the original rudder a kick-up so I made one by glueing two 3/4" pieces of b-c(you shoud use marine ply) ply wood and using the old rudder as a template. The hard part was figuring out the kick up part. The end result is 1.5" width which is less than the original but it works just fine. I bought pintels(1.5" width) and a J24 tiller because the old one wouldn't work. There is more to it than that but I'm sure that you can noodle out the rest yourself or come up with something else.

Good luck,
Chad

 

[Joe]

Thanks! (I have sent Chad an email asking for further details). Is there a better way to attach the gudgeon? It appears to have been epoxied 'in place' using the bolts as pins during a previous repair. I'm hoping for a solution where the hull is first repaired and smoothed before the old gudgeon (or a new one) is attached using some effective method. The local fiberglass boat guy is coming over on Monday evening but it would be nice to have some of the opinions of forum members/experts so that I can discuss meaningful alternatives with him.
Thank you.

 

[Chad and Sandy]

rudder

Hi Joe,

I'm sending some pics of my rudder and a friends rudder(the first two pics) from his O'Day 25. I used the fixed rudder to make a template out of cardboard. Then used the template to make cut outs from the plywood, remember that it is best to use marine ply. I then used the template to figure out how and where to cut the new rudder so that it could swing up. The side plates were made out of 1/4" ss by a guy at the local welding shop. The new rudder weighs almost as much as the old one due to all that stainless steel. I'm thinking that 1/8" might work just as well. The lower edge of the plates are flared just a bit so the bottom half doesn't catch when raising it. Just let me know if you have anymore questions and I'll be glade to help you out if I can.

Fair winds and full sails,

Chad

 

[Seth]

Rudder repair

That is a real bummer. I am surprised to see this-especially if BOTH pintles were properly seated in the gudgeons. Either way, I would repair the transom, and glass in a piece of plywood on the inside of the transom to spread the load out on each side, and up and down. Then when you rebolt the gudgeon in, you will be going through the actual transom AND the plywood. A kick up rudder is not a bad idea if you sail often in shallow water.

Good luck!

S

 

[Glyn Judson]

Gudgeon reattachment

Joe, Have you looked at the four mounting holes from the inside of the hull? At first glance it suggests to me that there might not be enough room at the inside corner of the transom and the bottom of the hull to get washers and nuts on the screws cleanly. It might take a bit of selective grinding of the glass in there to make it possible to get the hardware on properly. The outside glass repair would appear to be prertty straight forward after that. Thoughts anyone else on the close proximity of the holes to the corner? This could explain why someone might have simply buried the nuts and washers in an earlier outside glass repair. Or was that a factory install?!!!!!! If so, it could warrant other E23 owners checking that area for proper gudgeon attachmnent. Glyn Judson, E31 #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Bob in Va]

Rudder issues

When you are in shallow waters, your centerboard makes a better depthfinder than your rudder, because it will automatically kick back and up, since that is its normal path of rotation. If it has been raised fully, then the rudder is the lowest point on the boat and will hit first. You might want to mark the centerboard line/pendant so that you know how far to lower it so that it extends just a little lower than the rudder - then when you are in shallow waters, your board will drag and give you a little warning.
The transom at the point where the gudgeon broke off doesn't look overly strong - the suggestion to beef it up at that point is a good one. If you do use marine plywood, be sure to saturate it with epoxy resin (warming the wood helps the epoxy penetrate the fibers), including inside the bolt holes. The glue is waterproof, but the wood itself can soak up water. You want those areas of the transom to be very strong, especially where that lower one mounts.

 

[Joe]

Thank you very much for all the great observations and suggestions. I'm getting together with the person from the boatyard this evening, armed with all these comments. When the repair is effected, I'll report back.

 

[Sean Engle]

I would not mess around with this. As damage to that area down low could cause problems with water intrusion and potentially to the structure of the transom. Fixing the attachment point and reinforcing this area would be a good thing to do. Do what you need to do, but get it fixed right or learn to fix it right yourself. Also maybe you might want to look into a basic sailing class as well. Good luck. Ryan

Ditto.

Although don't feel too bad...this stuff happens to all of us. I've done things that I wish I hadn't (although you'll never get me to admit to what it was ).

I avoided most of the issues like your's by being absolutely paranoid about being in water less than 30 ft... (which, in the Pacific Northwest is easy to do - back east it's a totally different game)... Sailing in the Ohio River, you get an extra two letter grades from me...so this is minor...

Get it fixed right - learn the lesson and move on - and don't beat yourself up too much over it - you'll be fine.

//sse

 

[Joe]

Temporary Fix

I attach two images of the temporary repair. An aluminum backing plate was placed inside the hull at the transom. It seems to be holding up well. Thanks for the help.