Thoughts on 5/16's vs. 3/8ths halyard

[Chris Miller]

Question for you running rigging experts out there:
I have an oportunity to buy 2 high end spectra halyards (along with some shorter pieces as well) cheap in a bargain bin situation. Our 38 is set up for 3/8ths halyards and pole topping lift, but these are 5/16ths. Given that the line strength will not be an issue (using for only spin halyard, spare halyard, and topping lift- and we plan to only use the spinnaker in 12 kts of wind or less cruising), and the sheaves are ok, would the 1/16th diameter smaller difference be an issue?
My other option is to purchase lesser quality (but still decent material) stuff at much more cost (I can get all this stuff for $100- otherwise we're talking $100 each).
Thoughts?
As always, thanks for the expertise.
Chris

 

[Loren Beach]

"Does Size Really Matter?"

Since strength is not an issue, it goes to whether these will fit your clutches and ST winches. Then there is the issue of whether they would be so slim that that are too hard on your hands when tailing them.
On our boat we went to 5/16 "T-900" (7000# strength) and find that the original clutches and winches just barely handle them OK. Since we were changing from wire-with-line-tails, this was also the right size to fit in the sheaves at the masthead. For us, 3/8 will work, but is really too snug around those sheaves...
Your quoted price sounds most excellent!


Fair Winds,

Loren in PDX
(Certainly not an expert...)
Olson 34

 

[valentor]

Another important consideration is comfort in handling the lines. Jumping a 5/16 halyard is hard on the hands. Tailing any 5/16 line under load by hand is not practical.

I opted for 3/8 halyards and sheets, but opted for 5/16 for the topping lift, downhaul, vang, and furler.

My light air spin sheets are 1/4", but I consider them dangerous without gloves.

However, your deal sounds too good to pass up.



-Steve

 

[Chris Miller]

Lucky mistake about those lines

So I went to pick up the 5/16ths lines tonight. Turns out that they are 3/8ths after all. So for $100 I got a new spin halyard, a new topping lift, a new mainsheet, new traveler lines, and possibly a new vang line depending on how the cuts go on the piece that is badly chafed in one spot. I'm thinking I'm going to go grab a lottery ticket tomorrow . Well, maybe I'll grab that lottery ticket AFTER I do my 50' mast climb to replace my anemometer. No sense pushing it.
Thanks for the thoughts and advice on this... greatly appreciated.
Chris

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

What are thoughts on 5/16" line in the clutches then? I have an 89' E 38-200 and want to replace the halyards. I am thinking of 5/16 for at least the genny halyard as we use a roller furler and it does not come up and down I do set luff tension for conditions and slack off at end of the day. Only concern is the clutch. Probably stick with 3/8 for the main but may go with 5/16 on the spinnaker. Again my main concern here is how well the lines will work in the oem clutches. Chris any thoughts here? Thanks

 

[Chris Miller]

Should be able to find the range...

Hey Ted,
Check and see if you can get specs for the clutches you have. I checked ours and they say they'll handle anything from 1/4 up to 3/8ths. I don't believe the 1/4, but I think you should be ok with anything that they put on your cabin top for 5/16ths.

Speaking of running rigging, the specs suggest spin sheets of 7/16ths- can't imagine that in light air... unless you're flying it on a destroyer.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Yeah I hear you on the Spinsheets. I ended up buying 3/8 marlowbraid from APS in Annapolis. Price was decent and stretch was better than the 5/16. I don't plan on racing the boat and I think the 3/8 will end up lasting me a bit longer. What do you think about the 5/16 stuff as far as handling goes. I may go that way on the spin and main halyards as I figure the use they see will have me replacing more often. The jib halyard I just end up taking a foot or two off the masthead end ever other year as the sun cooks it. The rest stays inside the rig or under the dodger. Too much work on this boat for stripping covers and burying splices...I just wonder though if handling the 5/16 on the main and kite will be painful. I may just stick with 3/8. BTW when was that Oxford race you were asking about?

 

[Seth]

5/16

You are on the line in terms of this..I think for cruisers who have no weigtht concerns (or majors ones), 35'and over can go 3/8.. Below that, I feel 5/16 is better because of the weights savings and don't find it too hard on the hands. If you have mostly 3/8, you are 100% correct that a good place for the 5/16 is the T.L. and Spin. Hal.

Regarding the clutches, most that are used for 3/8 can accept or have an adjustment for 5/16..

Enjoy!

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Thanks Seth. The more I think about it I am more inclined to use a decent quality 12 strand 3/8 like the marlobraid. www.apsltd.com local performance sailing shop that is great to deal with stock a lot of hightech line at decent prices. They also have gym lockers outside that they will put your purchase in if you cant make it by before they close. I think the decent 12 strand will probably outlast the core/cover lines and the price is better. If I was racing I would probably go with Crystaline, strip the cover and bury it, but I think the 3/8 will be better on the hands.

 

[Chris Miller]

I went with all 3/8ths on the halyards and topping lift (even though I won't need it), but went with 5/16ths on the spin tack line just to reduce bulk. Personally, I don't like the thick spin sheets- but if you want to do a "set it and forget it" on the spinnaker, you have to use something big enough to fit in those gigantic winches. For race trim or when you've got the right number of bodies on the boat I like a smaller line to reduce bulk and give a better feel for what's happening beyond the winch.

As far as Seth's comments, I also think that the weight reduction from the wire to rope halyards will outweigh any weight issues you had aloft in the first place. Just my $0.02.
Chris

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I agree on the sheets. I currently have some heavy 7/16 sheets now that came with the boat. I will downsize them at some point but for now they are fine. I already have full rope halyards and no wire it just that they are all a little tired. The jib halyard was the worst as it was some really crappy 7/16 line. I'll probably do the main next but at $120 with the splicing work I aint in too big of a hurry. Found out last night that the POS plastic Raritan head needs replacing. Better now than 1/2 way into my cruise...

Vent/Rant: Why do they make heads using so many underbuilt poor quality plastic parts when everyone knows they will need to be serviced at some point? Going for the good old bronze Groco....

 

[windjunkee]

I just bought new halyards for my boat. I went with 3/8 samson "warpspeed" for the main and jib halyards and 3/8 XLS yachtbraid for the spin halyard. The warpspeed is kind of expensive ($3.05/ft list but got 30% off) but the difference between that and the XLS in terms of stretch is unbelievable. I actually went down from 9/16 on the main halyard and the clutches hold just fine. The weight difference is significant as well.

Jim McCone
"Voice of Reason" E32-2 Hull #134

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I would imagine if you went from 9/16 to 5/16 halyards you would save a lot of weight. I thought my 7/16 jib halyard was huge. I cant imagine 9/16, hell my anchor line is 9/16...

 

[Loren Beach]

Note that the 3/8 may be a do-able but too-tight fit through the masthead sheaves where the wire used to live. That's what I have found. The 5/16 works better for me --

After all, the (roller furling) jib halyard only gets tensioned for wind speed when I head out... and that clutch tension is cracked off when we get back to the dock. Note that those masthead sheaves will very likely need some truing up in a lathe when changing over to line.
Loren in PDX

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Very good advice if shifting from wire to rope on the sheaves. I already had rope halyards and when the rig was down this spring I cleaned and greased the sheaves. I was speaking with a buddy of mine who works at a rigging/fabrication shop in Annapolis, Madden Masts and Rigging. We were discussing ways to eliminate all the extra halyard you end up with when using RF genoas. I'll start a new thread and mention the two methods he suggested.