Tragedy East of Florida

[David Grimm]

How far off shore and deep down is it? Any chance of a salvage opperation?

Ohh and I agree that the engine water intake is in a terrible location for a failure. I will keep a close eye on these through hulls.

 

[gabriel]

In the case of "Lady K", the threads on the thru-hull portion were stripped. When he tried to put the original paddlewheel in it would not hold (threaded a couple of turns and then jumped threads) and his "blanking" plug had the same problem: Flood Repair - Episode 40 - Lady K Sailing

Update: Interestingly, the Airmar installation instructions (pdf) specifically call out installing a safety wire. "Warning: Always attach the safety wire to prevent the insert from backing out in the unlikely event that the cap nut fails or is screwed on incorrectly." I've never taken that to heart; I think I just had a change of heart.

Also there should be a flap/gate in the thru hull part that reduces the amount of water that rushes in, at

From the B&G DST-800 instructions: "Attach the safety wire to one eye in the hull nut. Keeping the wire taut throughout, lead the wire in a counterclockwise direction and thread it through one eye in the cap nut. Thread the wire through the eye a second time. Then lead the wire through the eye in the insert. Twist the wire securely to itself."

If the particular transducer you have does not have an eye in the insert, you could run the safety wire from the base through the screw ring (counter-clockwise) and then back down to the base (still counter-clockwise) to prevent the insert from popping out. Alternatively, one normal counter-clockwise wire from the base to the screw ring and then a second wired clockwise from the base to the screw ring would be the same effect. With two taut wires going 360 degrees, it will strongly resist the forces trying to push the insert up and out.

Given the seriousness of the situation if that transducer pops out, I will be safety wiring mine.

Mine has a gate\flap in the thru hull part that reduces the amount of water that would rush in if the transducer is removed. Yours doesn’t?

 

[Frank Langer]

Also there should be a flap/gate in the thru hull part that reduces the amount of water that rushes in, at

Mine has a gate\flap in the thru hull part that reduces the amount of water that would rush in if the transducer is removed. Yours doesn’t?

The older ones didn't have that flap.
Frank

 

[Loren Beach]

While our boat is on the hard, I pulled both transducers, last week. The thin coat of grease was on them from last time, probably over 5 years ago.
Only the KM has the "flap gate" and it still seems to pivot OK.
The DS does not, but then there is little reason to remove it. Also, this installation is over 15 years old, so Raymarine may have changed the design specs on it by now.

I had not looked for a way to wire to the threaded ring that secures the top, but sure enough there are some places on the side of the base. Wiring would keep the top piece from unscrewing, but it was very tight after being in place for years. When I re-greased them both and put them back, both of the large knurled rings tightened up very well and when they stop, that's all the further they seem to want to turn.
(Being in fresh water, we do not have to clean the paddle wheel nearly as often as folks do in salt water, and any slime is brushed away by our diver once a year.)

I have some ss wire on a spool - for shackle pins - , so I did wire them both anyway. Might as well be a little extra careful; it cannot hurt to do so.

In the past when I did pull the KM paddle wheel out to check on it , I can confirm that the "flap gate" does indeed slow the normal gusher to a steady trickle, if anyone has not utilized that feature and is curious. It is a nice feature!

 

[p.gazibara]

Woah, so glad you made it away safe and sound.

From what I have seen, the number of thruhulls on these boats is pretty insane. One for each cockpit drain? Crazy. On my previous E27, they even used gate valves. Not that the modern constructions are any better.

Really makes me appreciate these kiwi built boats of the same vintage. Open the transom and water empties much more quickly, no holes in the hull required. Also doubles as a swim platform. We have filled our E35-2 cockpit probably a half dozen of times.... I can you it takes a full minute to empty. They hold a lot of water.

A PO took Cinderella down to a single thruhull - engine intake only. At first I thought he was crazy.

I have since added 2, but when cruising it’s nice to let the head and sink go overboard.

I do have a DS and plugged hole where the KM went, but no thruhull per say. It is a requirement for the CAT 1 (offshore) boats here in NZ to have skin fittings with the flap that slows water ingress.

A concern I am now considering is some object in the same locker coming loose in that sea state and just smashing the thruhull breaking it. Kinda like that free range battery in Patriot. Who knows, that could have been the issue, especially if old PVC elbows were already suspect.

My multihull friends think we are crazy for having the “sinker” attached to the bottom to begin with.

-P

 

[David Grimm]

Forgive my comment. I see that you were in about 2500 feet of water.

 

[rbonilla]

In Richard's FB group, he reported that he began to take on water and suspected a failed seacock.

something major, below the waterline...after boat git "tossed - off a wave"

 

[rbonilla]

I am about to post time line..and narrative..for you guys....live and learn....

 

[mizunoman101]

When I bought my boat, the surveyor noted PVC plastic elbows on the foreward thru-hull valves for the head intake and discharge and recommended they be replaced. The boatyard where I'm a tenant was nonchalant about the PVC elbows and said that lots of boat manufacturers used them. But eventually I got nervous enough about them to replace them with bronze elbows. Those elbows are between the hole in the hull and the valve, so if they fail, you are out of luck unless you can stick a wooden bung in there fast. I expect the surveyor knew there was some good reason to avoid PVC plastic there.

We have the same setup in our 1984 E35. But the elbow is above the seacock valve... It may have been reworked at some time before we purchased her, but the elbow is above the seacock.. so it's a bit better. I was never a fan of the Plastic style seacock, but people swear by them.. who knows....

 

[rbonilla]

How far off shore and deep down is it? Any chance of a salvage opperation?

Ohh and I agree that the engine water intake is in a terrible location for a failure. I will keep a close eye on these through hulls.

I think about 150 feet...135 miles north/east of daytona beach.....

 

[rbonilla]

aprox location

 

[rbonilla]

Doomed Indonesian sub may have been hit by powerful underwater wave: report

Doomed Indonesian sub may have been hit by powerful underwater wave: report

Indonesian officials working to determine how a military submarine with 53 crew members sunk earlier this month during a training exercise said the vessel may have been hit by an internal solitary wave in the treacherous waters off Bali.

www.foxnews.com

 

[rbonilla]

Doomed Indonesian sub may have been hit by powerful underwater wave: report

Doomed Indonesian sub may have been hit by powerful underwater wave: report

Indonesian officials working to determine how a military submarine with 53 crew members sunk earlier this month during a training exercise said the vessel may have been hit by an internal solitary wave in the treacherous waters off Bali.

www.foxnews.com

weird, rouge waves

 

[Christian Williams]

I am about to post time line..and narrative..for you guys....live and learn....

 

[rbonilla]

If that's what happened here, it gives pause to the notion that one could easily find and block a broken seacock.
I imagine that, unless detected and identified very quickly, a completely failed seacock would fill the boat so quickly that most skippers couldn't get to it in time to block the leak. We probably also imagine in our mind's eye that the sea will be calm and the boat will remain essentially level, so that the water would rise slowly and evenly inside the boat.

Pairing that info (failed seacock) with the USCG video showing the boat very much bow-down in the water, one can imagine how difficult and dangerous it would be at that stage to go down below, in an angry seaway, duck under perhaps 3ft of water in the forward end of the boat, in a steeply angled cabin, to search for and block a broken seacock in a forward head.

yes...once there was more than a foot or so of water...shit got crazy...fast...debris getting thrown all around...with the rough water...still communicating with three locations...to maintain position and status information..monitoring injuries...making sure they didn't get worse...preparing to abandon ship...if needed...getting the RIB uncovered..and dropped off the davits...into the water... as the water rose in the cabin...it got to a point where it was dangerous to be in the debris field....

 

[rbonilla]

Great to know the InReach worked for him and that he was okay.

Scary situation for sure.

no doubt the Garmin In-Reach System saved my life ++

 

[K2MSmith]

yes...once there was more than a foot or so of water...shit got crazy...fast...debris getting thrown all around...with the rough water...still communicating with three locations...to maintain position and status information..monitoring injuries...making sure they didn't get worse...preparing to abandon ship...if needed...getting the RIB uncovered..and dropped off the davits...into the water... as the water rose in the cabin...it got to a point where it was dangerous to be in the debris field....

I'm thinking of installing a bilge alarm. If I'm single handing, at least the alarm would let me know early if there is a water coming in from somewhere and I would have a chance to check all the thru-hulls before the level gets so high that you can't tell where water is coming from. Of course, easy to say from an armchair...

 

[toddster]

I'm thinking of installing a bilge alarm. If I'm single handing, at least the alarm would let me know early if there is a water coming in from somewhere and I would have a chance to check all the thru-hulls before the level gets so high that you can't tell where water is coming from. Of course, easy to say from an armchair...

Somehow, that reminds me of a video that Web Chiles posted of him pounding across the Indian Ocean with six inches of water sloshing around in his bunk. Which was the bilge, at that point. Of course, a Moore 24 prolly doesn’t have much else for a bilge.

 

[K2MSmith]

Somehow, that reminds me of a video that Web Chiles posted of him pounding across the Indian Ocean with six inches of water sloshing around in his bunk. Which was the bilge, at that point. Of course, a Moore 24 prolly doesn’t have much else for a bilge.

The E33RH isn’t much better. The bilge gets pretty full with just a few buckets of water . I do this all the time to test the pump and flush the bilge out with fresh water . The level will rise more slowly after you fill it because of the hull shape but I don’t think it would take long to cover the below water line thru hulls , then all bets are off finding the leak . Unless water is coming though the keel , the best chance to discover the leak is to catch it before the water comes in ( with a bilge alarm ) or even better during maintenance.. I just double clamped a few hoses

 

[rbonilla]

alarm would have great