Un-hosing

[Bolo]

Hello all and especially those on the Chesapeake who attended the Ericson get together. We want to come but had some other commitments that weekend. Maybe we'll make the next one. Now to my question.

We are new owners of an Ericson 32 MKIII (1987) and as many of you Ericson owners know, who have boats in that range, there are a lot of hoses in the head. The locker under our sink is just a jungle with them and the sea cocks and valves that many are connected to so that everything flows the way it should. To add to it, one of the previous owners of our boat added a deck wash and the pump and more hoses are in the same cabinet. It's a bit difficult to open the sea cock for the sink drain.

The pump on our head is also leaking a bit and I have plans to rebuild it. Because we can't dump into the bay, and never would want to, and have no future plans (at the moment) to ocean sail outside the restricted dumping areas - I was thinking on eliminating some of the unnecessary hoses when I rebuild the head. I did the same thing on a Hunter 285 we owned and it worked out quite well. As far as the extra hole for the waste dump went I capped the old gate valve.

In the case of our Ericson I was going to just run a hose (the same hose) to both of the unused through hulls. (Sort of a road to no where.) Remove the "Y" valve and make a direct run to the waste tank from the head. Anyone ever done something like this? I figure that this will give us a lot more room in the cabinet and get around any problems the coast guard might have with us having any chance of dumping our waste in the bay. :0305_alar Thoughts?

Bob Skalkowski
Ericson 32 MKIII
"Vesper"
Port Annapolis

 

[CaptnNero]

Hose vs storage

Practically speaking, you're trading the Y-valve option for more storage. Since you're pretty much Chesapeake bound, you don't need the overboard dumping anyway. The reduced hose will also mean less hose to produce odors. Even if the Y-valve is closed, they sometimes leak a little into what should be the empty hose. You can always convert it back if you ever need to.

Makes sense to me.

 

[rwthomas1]

My E38 has what I think is an elegant solution to the Y-valve issue. There isn't one. The head pumps directly to the holding tank. The tank can be emptied through the deck pumpout fitting or a manual Whale pump that pumps overboard through a seacock. The seacock handle has been removed with the valve in the off position to comply with local "no discharge" laws.

I spent a fair amount of time simply rerouting and repositioning plumbing and pumps in my boat as well as replacing all the seacocks when we got her. The benefits are that now all seacocks are easily accessible and all extraneous plumbing has been removed or relocated so that things make more sense. You may find some reworking of the existing systems make things much easier to deal with.

RT

 

[Emerald]

In the case of our Ericson I was going to just run a hose (the same hose) to both of the unused through hulls. (Sort of a road to no where.) Remove the "Y" valve and make a direct run to the waste tank from the head. Anyone ever done something like this?

Bob Skalkowski
Ericson 32 MKIII
"Vesper"
Port Annapolis

Hi,

I believe that what you really want to do, and what would be considered proper if surveyed etc., is to have flanged seacocks on the thru-hulls on reinforcing pads (e.g. epoxy coated marine ply disc of appropriate size) just as if they were operational. Then you can add a plug to the interior side of the thru-hull if you want further protection beyond it just being in the "off" position.

If you follow this, you will not only have the most seaworthy solution, but you can get rid of the hose loop between the two and gain more space.

I have done what you are thinking of regarding directly connecting the head to the holding tank and foregoing any Y valves, pumps etc., and agree for cruising in our area it makes good easy sense. If you do decide to plumb the whole thing, the overboard discharge needs to either have the handle on the seacock wired down shut or have the handle removed.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Tom Metzger]

Because of the difficulty of removing hoses from the bottom of the holding tank I opted for joining the two hoses between the head and the tank and put plugs in both sea cocks. I removed the Y valve and plugged the pump output hose.

There is no purpose to a hose connecting the sea cocks when a 1 1/2" pipe plug works so well. It is just another hose in the cabinet.

Continue to grease the sea cocks periodically so they still work when you need them or when you sell the boat.

I did mine on the run because the Vermont police board boats looking for connected thru hulls. There must be a visible break, no locks or removed handles. They do not inspect the Burlington sewer system after a heavy rain storm.

 

[Chris Miller]

Ted did this... right?

Didn't Ted do this same thing and document it in posts here?
Search on it and see, as I recall his was pretty concise.
Chris

 

[CaptnNero]

..

Then you can add a plug to the interior side of the thru-hull if you want further protection beyond it just being in the "off" position.

If you follow this, you will not only have the most seaworthy solution, but you can get rid of the hose loop between the two and gain more space.

...
-David
Independence 31
Emerald

David and Tom are right about not using the loop between the unused thruhulls. That might make a future surveyor scatch their head. It is not good to put doubt into a surveyor's head. Besides, by plugging them instead you are not only being more robust but it fits one of your other goals better of making more storage space by not having some more hose in the way.

I like Tom's idea of greasing and operating the unused seacocks to keep them serviceable. I had a plugged thruhull once that I cable-tied shut for safety in case the plug got loosened by stuff in the storage area combined with Murphy's law. I periodically cut the cable ties and cycled the handle as Tom suggests.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I did basically what Rob did to his 38 and I think I posted pictures somewhere here. I pulled the holding tank and trashed all the hoses, vented loops, holding tank vent filter, and rebuilt the manual pump. I ran the head discharge directly to the holding tank. I then have one hose for deck pump out and another going to a manual pump then to the seacock. That seacock stays shut. I replaced all of the hoses with new sealand odor proof stuff and new hose clamps. I did the work in the winter to avoid the heat and stink, but bending the hose was a job needing the heatgun. I put a cap on the unused seacock but plan to remove it entirely and glass over the hole this winter when I replace my t-huls. On the intake for the head I added a hose with a valve to connect the sink drain to the head intake when I want to flush the head with fresh water. Others have simply teed off the sink drain and head intake to one seacock. This is an easier option but you will need a stopper for the sink to prevent sucking air when you flush. I had great intentions of always flushing the head with fresh water when I left the boat but I have been a slacker. I do get out on the boat once a week though.

 

[CaptnNero]

hot water vs heat gun/ dip tube

For working with the white odorsafe hose I had much better results using a deep pan of very hot water (brought to boil and then simmer) than using a heat gun. Using the hot water method you can get better heat distribution through the hose but you still need to be careful not to over heat it. Through trial and error I found a specific dipping time that worked well. I was replacing all of the head hoses so the extra time perfecting the method paid off later.

At the same time I was also replacing the holding tank itself. On our 32-200 I was able to replace it with a stock rectangular tank from WM, actually 50% taller. I attached all of the hoses to the top of the tank to reduce the likelyhood of leakage from fittings. For the pumpout fitting I used what is called a dip tube, which is a tube that goes to one half pipe diameter from the bottom of the tank. The dip tube method is supposed to provide the most complete pumpout.

Since all hoses were routed to the top of the tank instead of the bottom, I expected more back pressure from the pressure of the full hose when pumping with the tank empty. It turned out that was not noticeable. When the joker and flap valves start to go or get jammed open is when it would be more noticeable with backflow to the bowl.

 

[u079721]

Being on the Great Lakes we didn't need and couldn't use much of the factory installed head gear and hoses. So here is what I did on our 38. Not elegant, but simple and quick.

Remove the manual pump entirely, and cover up the hole in the wall. Put a cap over the unused through hulls. And as for the hose that runs from the bottom of the holding tank to the pump, I cut it off even with the top of the tank in the lazarette and put a metal plug in it - then removed the rest of the run between the lazarette and the head. Much more room in the cabinet, and much less hose to permeate odor.

 

[Bolo]

Thanks for "th-hose" thoughts!

Thanks to everyone for all of your thoughts about removing some of the excess hoses in the head. Sounds like everyone is in agreement (which I expected) and so I'll be doing this job soon even if it is August. I'll just wear a mask and rubber gloves. Can't say I'm use to doing this sort of thing but we're also cat owners. Two of them too and it's amazing how much smelly "stuff" can come out of those critters!

As for connecting the two through hulls together with a hose, I was going to do that till I hauled the boat out and do a proper capping job. But now I think I'm going to run a hose from the head pump directly to the tank. Then another from the tank to the bigle type pump, in the head, and then to one of the through hulls. I'll remove the handle to the sea cock and just keep it hanging nearby to satisfy the local officals. This will give me lots more room in the cabinet and, with the replacement of new hoses, get rid of most (if not all) of the smell. Thanks again all!

Bolo

 

[CaptnNero]

t-valve

This will give me lots more room in the cabinet and, with the replacement of new hoses, get rid of most (if not all) of the smell. Thanks again all!

Bolo

One of the sources of smell is the seawater which stands in the small intake hose between the seacock and the head. A week or so of standing water in there breeds some nasty anaerobic bacteria. One boat I placed a t-valve at the thru hull with a removable cap. At the end of a cruise I removed the cap, turned the valve to intake air instead of seawater, and pumped the head until it wouldn't pump any more water out. This reduced the odor a great deal the next time the head was used.

Others have had very good results by supplying the head with fresh water only (with a sanitary safety check valve). On the Chesapeake we have salt in the water and I am now considering plumbing the head with fresh water, probably with another t-valve so I can always switch to seawater if supplies are low.

 

[Bolo]

The deed has been done!

Yesterday I "dove" into the head and pulled out the "Y" valve, all it's connecting hoses and then ran a direct hose from the head pump to the tank. Needless to say, it was a very smelly and messy job but since I once raised kids (they're grown now) I've had the "stuff" on me before. Not that I'm use to it. It just was, let's say, a "familiar" smell. :eek:

The head is a lot nicer now that the smell is gone and we have more room in the cabinet too. If anyone of you decide to change head hoses you might want to have a hand held hair dryer and some Vaseline around. Sounds kinky, I know ,but it was a great help in getting the hose onto the tank connection. The guy at the marine store I go to suggested putting the ends into hot water first. But by the time you get the hose into position they've cooled. Using a bit of Vaseline and heating the ends with a hair dryer worked like a charm. Don't forget those double hose clamps!

CatpnNero, I do know about the sea water that stands between the sea cock and pump adding to the smell after the head hasen't been used for awhile. On my last boat I put in one of those blue concentrate mini-cartages, sort of a marine tidy bowl man thing, and it helped. Made the water blue and did also help to keep the bowl a little cleaner. Not sure, yet if I'll do that to my Ericson head.

Bob

 

[Loren Beach]

Hose follies

I agree with Bob about using a lube for the new hose... but since some hose materials might, over time, react poorly to a petroleum jelly product, note that the better choice is KY jelly.
And then, the whole subject of picking the "right" head hose is akin to arguing religion or politics... worse, maybe!


For more frustration, try comparing the differing OD versions of a "standard" (Ha!) 1 1/2 inch barb fitting that are for sale out there.


Loren

 

[CaptnNero]

Cool hoses

The guy at the marine store I go to suggested putting the ends into hot water first.

Bob

Bob,

Cooling was sometimes a problem so I ended up bringing a hot mug of water to the area I was working in when it was too far from the stove. That had to be done anyway because I didn't trim the hose to final length until one end was connected. I originally learned the hot water trick when working on a pool plumbing system that I upgraded at our previous house. One of the spa shop techs told me about it. I would put some dishwashing liquid on the fitting end while the hose end was heating. Pool and spa shops sell a hose safe lubricant called "Clear Lube" that's also used on O-rings but as Loren said good old K-Y sounds good too. WM ought to stock that anyway.

A few years ago I saw a pricey but interesting new product at the boat show. It is a bunch of fittings designed for the head systems. The unions are in three pieces so at any time you can disassemble any section of hose and replace it quickly by replacing the hose end fittings outside of the cramped plumbing spaces. If you're keeping the boat for many years it might be worthwhile, but who the heck knows how long they're going to have a boat ? Also you would need to replace the O-rings at some point or you will have a worse problem. It adds up to easier hose replacement but more maintenance.

I fully understand what Loren said about 1-1/2" barb fitting "standards". I've had a few surprises there with the pool plumbing. They are the same parts.

Congrats on conquering the head plumbing.