Useful Life of Universal Diesel Engines?

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sfbaysailingfan

New Member
Can anyone give me input on the useful life, in operating hours, of the diesel engines on '88 Ericson 38 sailboats, assuming reasonable maintenance: oil changes, etc.? I have about 5,000 hours on the engine [mostly light duty motoring in and out of the marina] and need to replace the transmission. I don't want to invest in a new transmission if the engine is nearing end of useful life. I'd rather completely repower now if that makes more sense.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Charlie
ANTICIPATION, Ericson 38
San Francisco
 
Loren Beach

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Interesting Decision

We bought our boat in '94. I had no prior experience with owning a marine diesel. So I called Universal Westerbeke and spoke with an engineer about maint. and life expectancy and he told me not to worry... that as long as I kept clean oil in it and generally looked after it it should go at least 4500 hours before anything major was very likely. And it might go on a lot longer than that.

Pretty similar advice from a local diesel mechanic that I know, too.
I had just under 1000 hrs on it then and is close to 2000 hours now. We change oil every year and never have to add oil. It starts quickly and does not smoke.

One point that our mechanic friend makes to all sailboat owners (and to most trawler owners as well) is that "light use" is a lot harder on engines than running for hours at full load.

Given that you say you have used yours only to get in and out of the marina and now have 5000 hours on it.... it sounds to me like you have a better-than-average engine. I might lean towards installing a new engine/trans/panel with a nice lovely new warranty if anything major hiccuped on an engine with those hours on it. After all, it isn't just the reliable Kubota engine short block to consider, but all the spendy marinization parts on it that get old/worn/thin as well. Of course untested opinions are cheap. At crunch time I might opt for the rebuild, too. Here I am, speculating about the scenery down a road I have not yet traveled...

FWIW, I am hearing very good things about the newest Kubota blocks regarding both economy and cylinder head design. What that's worth, if anything, for an upgrading and older sailboat is extremely subjective. :)

Best,
LB
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
I am about to tear half my Universal engine apart to replace a $6 gasket. There are almost 4K hours on it. I admit sometimes it is quite tempting to think its repower time when the little things start going wrong. Trouble is, even a new repower package can have problems. If I had to guess I would think that replacing a Hurth 100 (if you have the same trans I do) will cost $1000 for a rebuilt unit and another $1000 in labor, so maybe $2K. A repower will set you back 5 times that. I suppose it depends on if you are a competent and willing DIY'er or not. Then its just your time and the cost of the rebuilt transmission.

That said, I wouldn't write off any engine without some diagnosis work. A compression test and oil analysis will give you a better idea of the health of the engine. The maintenance records and history of the engine will also dictate your decision. If the engine has been well maintained and has given little trouble I would have no problem simply replacing the trans and moving on.

RT
 
brianb00

brianb00

O - 34
rebuilt xp25 top end

Last summer I had a seal fail on the raw water pump. This led to a rusty spot in oil pan. Ordered new pan, and pulled engine onto sole. Since I had it out anyway I opted to lift head and have valves re worked. Had tractor mechanic install valves, test injectors, new seals, etc. Injectors were in poor condition, they were not injecting even fuel levels, so replaced all. Valves were showing signs of wear but nothing major. With rebuild I reassembeled. All is well , engine runs smoother. Hours on engine were approx 1200 . Since I have added approx 100 hrs, all strong.

Brian SV Redsky.


rwthomas1 said:
I am about to tear half my Universal engine apart to replace a $6 gasket. There are almost 4K hours on it. I admit sometimes it is quite tempting to think its repower time when the little things start going wrong. Trouble is, even a new repower package can have problems. If I had to guess I would think that replacing a Hurth 100 (if you have the same trans I do) will cost $1000 for a rebuilt unit and another $1000 in labor, so maybe $2K. A repower will set you back 5 times that. I suppose it depends on if you are a competent and willing DIY'er or not. Then its just your time and the cost of the rebuilt transmission.

That said, I wouldn't write off any engine without some diagnosis work. A compression test and oil analysis will give you a better idea of the health of the engine. The maintenance records and history of the engine will also dictate your decision. If the engine has been well maintained and has given little trouble I would have no problem simply replacing the trans and moving on.

RT
Click to expand...
 
E

escapade

Inactive Member
For what it's worth

My 88 E34 has a ton of hours on it and still runs fine. I did replace the reversing gear (Hurth). Found I could get a new box with 36 month warrenty for less than a rebuilt! About $1,100 w/shipping from Fla to Mi. Installed it with boat in water in August (hotter than blazes that weekend). Not a big deal. Had the head off last summer (a recurring theme?) to remove a piece of screen from the intake filter that broke loose and held a valve open. Did the valves at the same time. $70 for the gasket kit from Kubota ($260 from MDD). Had the injectors rebuilt at the local diesel fuel injection repair facility. They do that all the time on trucks, farm tractors and construction equipment. Cost less than $100 for all three (3) injectors on my M25XP. I'm going to have the injector pump rebuilt this winter (try to avoid the August interuption) just because (about $225). All this added up is still much less than a new engine. Our boat spent the first 14 years in Fla/Ga where they can boat year around. I don't think it was well cared for by the PO's either. Inside the engine was near perfect (slight ridge at top of bores, valve guides in tolerance, good compression). These motors will last a long time. Oil consumption will be your first indicator of the need for a major overhaul.
Just my $.02 worth.:)
 
N

newpbs

Member III
Oil Consumption

I also have a Universal M25XP. The engine has been in service since the boat was built in 1988. I have no idea how well the engine how maintained by the POs.

How much oil should I expect to consume? I have no idea how many hours are on the engine but I know that last year we motored about 40 hours before having to ad a quart.

What weight of oil should I be using on this engine?

Paul
 
E

escapade

Inactive Member
Oil consumption

Paul
I use straight 30W oil. Motoring aprox. 30-45 hrs/year (Michigan) my oil level does not drop a bit. BEWARE!!! If you run the engine, let it cool off and then pull the dip stick, it WILL show a quart low. Checking it again will show the oil to be at proper level. This is caused by the dip stick "O" ring seal in the tube not letting the oil return to it's proper level after cooling. When I first brought my boat up here from Georgia I pumped 6 quarts of oil out of the oil pan. Oil was sprayed everywhere and I bought with the idea I'd have to rebuild the engine. After draining and putting 4 quarts in I no longer have the oil spray issue and have used none in 8 seasons on Sag Bay/Lake Huron.
For what it's worth, I have always used Valvoline oil. I've noticed and my friends who rebuild confirm that it seems to do the best job of removing sludge from an engine. (I have no comercial interest in this product and this is NOT scientific, only an observation.)
If your not overfilling the crankcase then it would seem the the oil control rings are gummed/worn and need to be addressed. This is doable if your handy but I would get the shop manual from MDD (Thorensens in Muskegon). Has all the info you need to rebuild, but get parts from Kubota (MUCH cheaper).
 
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newpbs

Member III
Thanks

The information is helpful. Sorry about the hijacked thread, the oil consumption question seemed to fit with the original post.

Happy New Year

Paul
 
CTOlsen

CTOlsen

Member III
Same oil level issue

escapade said:
Paul
I use straight 30W oil. Motoring aprox. 30-45 hrs/year (Michigan) my oil level does not drop a bit. BEWARE!!! If you run the engine, let it cool off and then pull the dip stick, it WILL show a quart low. Checking it again will show the oil to be at proper level. This is caused by the dip stick "O" ring seal in the tube not letting the oil return to it's proper level after cooling. When I first brought my boat up here from Georgia I pumped 6 quarts of oil out of the oil pan. Oil was sprayed everywhere and I bought with the idea I'd have to rebuild the engine. After draining and putting 4 quarts in I no longer have the oil spray issue and have used none in 8 seasons on Sag Bay/Lake Huron.
Click to expand...

I've had the same oil level issue, and also added an extra quart because I erroniously thought level was low. Now, I remove the oil fill cap to equalize pressure on both sides of the dip stick, and check the level at least twice. My diesel mechanic thought I was crazy when I asked him about it. Thanks!
 
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jgarmin098

Member II
Remove dip stick, wipe clean, insert dipstick, remove dipstick, check oil level on stick.

Mine stick is always dry when checking. That's what happens when you reach a certain age...
 
Gary Peterson

Gary Peterson

Marine Guy
I have always used Chevron Delo 15-40 HD oil.
Has anyone removed the front cover on a 5432? I have an oil leak and am concerned about separating the governor cover from the injection pump.
 
Gary Peterson

Gary Peterson

Marine Guy
Sorry-I did not mean to advertise one type of oil. I meant to imply to use a DIESEL HD oil. I believe 15 - 40 is the norm for 4 cycle marine diesels. Now synthetic oils are a different ball game.
 
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Emerald

Moderator
HI Gary,

don't think any need to apologize, and I didn't mean to say the Chevron Delo was a bad product, only that we should look beyond what's on sale and there are some really good products out there that can make a difference.

just another $.02 worth

:egrin:
 
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newgringo

Member III
We have 3000 hrs on our 1986 M25 and still going strong. Starts easy, no smoke and pushes our E32-3 to hull speed. Now the airplane folks have a thing called TBO or Time Between Overhauls. Many time careful owners get to TBO and beyond and are faced with the same question. Admittedly the stakes are higher but sometimes these folks do an overhaul "just because". So maybe it depends on your use. I guess if I were planning a big cruise the re power would sound appealing. But for local use where losing an engine is more of an inconvenience I would change the tranny. But I would be starting to worry about starters, water pumps and who knows what else that could also go TU. Not much help, but fun offering my opinion FWIW.
 
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