Water around mast

[windblown]

I've been trying to trace a mystery source of water, eliminating some along the way. This season, a patch of sole between the mast and the head door went from dark stain and varnish lifting to all-out wet rot (just opened it up using hand drill and a mini hacksaw). I expected to find water trapped in the TAFG compartment. The wood was soaked, but no standing water. To my surprise, there is a limber hole. So water could come and go there and must have gotten trapped this season?
I don't think this is rain water from the mast. I may have water coming in between keel and hull. I may need to re-pack the rudder, and I may have a Dorade leak.
However, today, when I looked into the access hole that is under the salon settee on the port side next to the mast, I discovered a hose I never noticed before. It is hard red rubber, like my old bilge pump hoses. It seems to terminate right there, but where does it come from? Could this be draining water from farther astern? Any ideas, o wise ones?View attachment 44756View attachment 44756

 

[windblown]

My apologies for the duplicate image. I have trouble posting from the phone. Here is the 3rd image I meant to post.

Here's an update. The hose terminates at the limber hole in the shower bilge pump compartment. Apparently it was once attached to the catch basin/drain in the head, but it's just loose at that end.
I can reach farther down through that hole at the bottom of the settee, where I eventually feel a puddle of water. It is to port of the regular bilge compartments, and I don't see how it might drain. . .

 

[peaman]

Either it is the drain hose from shower sump to the forward-most bilge access area (just abaft the mast step), or it may be one of the "conduit" hoses installed for running wiring or whatnot through the boat. When I installed new wind instruments and speed transducer, I ran a N2K backbone cable through a conduit from just aft of the transducer through hull, back to the nav station. My conduits were all white plastic hose, I think 1" inside diameter.

Also worth noting: on my boat, there is nothing but caulk/sealant to keep leaks in the head vanity from passing under the inboard head bulkhead and then onto the sole aft of the V berth. I was surprised and disappointed to discover that, and so I placed a generous new layer of sealant on the head-side of that bulkhead so leaks would instead go to the bilge.

 

[Kenneth K]

That location looks like the classic mast-base leak to me. If the water were coming from below (keel bolts, rudder gland, etc.) you'd have to have 6 inches of water in all your bilges before it would reach the floor.

My floor started delaminating in that same area but I caught it early enough to save the plywood. Though the mast drain hole faces aft, water can drain out from anywhere around the base of the mast, and it can run forward onto the floor forward of the mast. I had to build up a dam around the base of the mast (I used caulk, others have used adhesive weatherstripping) to force water to drain aft, into the bilge, rather than forward, onto the sole.



If that hose is 3/4" diameter, it's likely the hose that comes from the shower drain. The end opposite the shower should exit into the forward bilge somewhere. Here was mine (location #3):


That hole forward of the mast (looks like you have one below your teak trim ring) is to access the forward keel bolt with a socket extension bar.


If you have water from the mast draining forward, some could be running down this hole into the keel bolt area. Even if not, if the bilges ever get several inches if water in them, water can flow under the TAFG and reach this forward bolt. When you pump the bilges dry, any water by the forward bolt stays trapped and has to be sponged/pumped out by hand.

Sorry to hear about your floor .

 

[Loren Beach]

I have found that dust and bits of "whatever" can slowly plug up that drain hole (slot) at the rear of the mast. You can wiggle a wire into it regularly, and when sometime your spar is down, clean up the inside of the base properly.
We did that last year just before launch.

 

[Christian Williams]

One more thing to check in this area is the original Qest-brand plumbing under the head sink. The area is awkward and shower or sink fittings may have leaked over the years--only, of course, when the system is pressurized, so that casual inspection shows no drips.

Worth checking off the cause list. Such unseen leaks caused delam of my sole in that area.

 

[windblown]

Thanks, All. Here's an update.
I can confirm that the red hose is apparently the original hose from the shower drain to the limber hole in the shower sump/bilge. It seems it was only installed with caulk or some soft adhesive that has since expired at both ends. This possibly explains why I was sometimes finding 1 - 4" of water in the shower bilge, even though we've never used the shower: it was coming in through the old, loose hose when there was water that had accumulated and was trapped in that area bilge area around the forward-most keel bolt.

 

[windblown]

One more thing to check in this area is the original Qest-brand plumbing under the head sink. The area is awkward and shower or sink fittings may have leaked over the years--only, of course, when the system is pressurized, so that casual inspection shows no drips.

Worth checking off the cause list. Such unseen leaks caused delam of my sole in that area.

Good idea. I'll check that out. I've also wondered about a leak from the port fresh water tank. I hadn't thought about the need to pressurize the system for a good inspection. Thank you!

 

[windblown]

That location looks like the classic mast-base leak to me. If the water were coming from below (keel bolts, rudder gland, etc.) you'd have to have 6 inches of water in all your bilges before it would reach the floor.

My floor started delaminating in that same area but I caught it early enough to save the plywood. Though the mast drain hole faces aft, water can drain out from anywhere around the base of the mast, and it can run forward onto the floor forward of the mast. I had to build up a dam around the base of the mast (I used caulk, others have used adhesive weatherstripping) to force water to drain aft, into the bilge, rather than forward, onto the sole.

View attachment 44767

If that hose is 3/4" diameter, it's likely the hose that comes from the shower drain. The end opposite the shower should exit into the forward bilge somewhere. Here was mine (location #3):
View attachment 44770 View attachment 44771

That hole forward of the mast (looks like you have one below your teak trim ring) is to access the forward keel bolt with a socket extension bar.
View attachment 44768 View attachment 44769

If you have water from the mast draining forward, some could be running down this hole into the keel bolt area. Even if not, if the bilges ever get several inches if water in them, water can flow under the TAFG and reach this forward bolt. When you pump the bilges dry, any water by the forward bolt stays trapped and has to be sponged/pumped out by hand.

Sorry to hear about your floor .

Thank you so much, Kenneth. My mast rainwater drip definitely runs forward through that access hole. I don't find anywhere in, through, or under the teak collar where water might travel aft into the bilge compartments where the pumps are. Is there supposed to be a channel I'm missing? Did you remove your teak collar to create one?

 

[Kenneth K]

I don't find anywhere in, through, or under the teak collar where water might travel aft into the bilge compartments where the pumps are. Is there supposed to be a channel I'm missing? Did you remove your teak collar to create one?

Yeah, this was kind of an oversight on the original (1985) 32-3s. By 86 or 87, Ericson lowered the mast base and inch or so below the sole and molded a dedicated channel in the TAFG so mast water could only flow aft into the first bilge. That's why many call the first bilge section the shower/mast bilge.

Answering your question makes me remember all the time and effort I put into this problem when I first got the boat. My teak trim collar was in pieces when I got the boat, so it was the first thing I removed. I suppose the original teak collar could, in itself, inhibit water from flowing aft into the bilge section. Here was my evolution of attempts at a solution (without the teak collar in place):

1. Building a caulk dam around the black mast base (shown in post #4 above).

2. Continuing the dam aft, on top of the TAFG, to direct water into the bilge. This included removing the teak bilge cover plate and replacing with a piece of wood that was slotted in the front.


3. At this point, I was still discouraged that water collecting at the front edge of the mast base didn't flow backward into the bilge. So I used a drill and grinding bit to cut a shallow slot in the base and the TAFG top to direct water aft. I also added another layer of caulk all the way around the mast base to make the dam higher. This pretty much did the trick.


4. When adding back the teak collar (I had to glue mine back together), I left the back end removable (with screws) to allow installation/removal with the mast in place. I also cut out raised sections in bottom edges of the front and back so any leaking water could travel underneath the ring. In the end, this wasn't really required because I added screw-in snaps to keep the ring in place. The snaps probably raise it high enough to let water pass below.


I think I was 2 or 3 years into the project by this point, but we get a lot of rain here in Seattle. Here is what it looks like today:


Once you get all the mast water flowing back into the bilge, you have to decide if you want to isolate that bilge (which is what I did). If not isolated, once you get an inch or so of water there, it flows into the shower drain hole (position #3 in post #4), gets under the TAFG, and flows into the rearward bilge sections. I wrote about dealing with that here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/re-working-the-bilge-pump-setup.870/

 

[windblown]

Sometimes you have to laugh!? I finally got my arm far enough into the access inside the port settee to touch the keel bolt in front of the mast. My next step was going to be to drop the 1.5" socket over the bolt and see if I could then use an extender to check the torque on that nut from the access hole in front of the mast.
Much to my surprise, the nut was completely loose. I don't mean it wasn't snug. I mean, it was sitting in sludge and water.
Here it is.

I'm guessing this may have something to do with the water in the bilge area. . .

 

[windblown]

Sometimes you have to laugh!? I finally got my arm far enough into the access inside the port settee to touch the keel bolt in front of the mast. My next step was going to be to drop the 1.5" socket over the bolt and see if I could then use an extender to check the torque on that nut from the access hole in front of the mast.
Much to my surprise, the nut was completely loose. I don't mean it wasn't snug. I mean, it was sitting in sludge and water.
Here it is.
View attachment 44862
I'm guessing this may have something to do with the water in the bilge area. . .

Well, not as crazy as I thought. Feeling around for the keel boat, I found it. And there IS a nut
on the forward keelbolt, after all. Apparently this loose one is a spare?

 

[Loren Beach]

Apparently this loose one is a spare?

Crew was finishing up the shift on a Friday, and a choice was made between retrieving the errant nut or clocking out and meeting friends at the tavern...?