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Water in bilge while on jack stands

Chschaus

"Voila"
Yes, not all that difficult, scraped off all the caulking I could then removed the screws. Cleaned everything up and laid a bead of silicone and screwed it back. I'll be removing it again this spring as I need to replace the forward bulkhead, I made a cardboard template but I think as soon as I start with wood I wont be able to get it in place so I'll go through the deck opening by removing the anchor locker.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Water water everywhere.......

My most consistent source of water is from the mast. My mast / shower shower bilge used to have a limber hole at the bottom so once water collected water there, it flowed to all the other bilge sections and under the TAFG. After filling that limber hole with epoxy, I can now trap about 5 in of water in the mast bilge. Above about 5in, water flows through the PVC conduit that holds the bilge hoses, and then flows into the other sections and sub-TAFG.

After a windy/driving rain, I sometimes have found leaks coming from areas at the stern too. The cowl vents themselves sometimes let water in, but the plastic fittings where they snap into their bases will collect and drip even more water.

If you haven't sealed the stanchion base that the stern light wiring passes through, then you could likely get water flowing down the stanchion through the wiring hole as well.

I sometimes get leaks from the starboard mounted coming box. Also, one winter I removed the center scupper grates to insert rubber corks in the scupper holes for winterizing. I left the scupper plate screws out for a week which allowed lots of water to ingress through the screw holes.

Water that enters at the stern can be difficult to track. From there it either flows above the TAFG and winds up at the plywood water-heater base, or it flows below the TAFG where the TAFG is cut open at the stern through hulls. Either way, it eventually ends up in the aft bilge sections.
 
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Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Yes, not all that difficult, scraped off all the caulking I could then removed the screws. Cleaned everything up and laid a bead of silicone and screwed it back. I'll be removing it again this spring as I need to replace the forward bulkhead, I made a cardboard template but I think as soon as I start with wood I wont be able to get it in place so I'll go through the deck opening by removing the anchor locker.
Good to hear. Thanks Chris.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Re removal of anchor locker pan:

 

jtsai

Member III
Just realized post #14 is by nquigley who posted a fantastic write up in 2020 about his Maxwell windlass installation. Neal did seal his anchor well water-tight during the installation so the bilge water he wrote about in the recent post is most likely not from a compromised anchor well drain.
 

e38 owner

Member III
I have also had hose come off the cockpit drains. The one that connects to the rear above the water line. I think the ice popped them off. I have never really had the bilge fill.
I take the cockpit drain over off the above the waterline drains and put in a plug I.5 or 2 inch plug Ibought at Home Depot. It is either 1.5 or 2 inches pool line plug. Any water runs outb of the cockpt through the below the waterline line. That does not have an,y low spots so stays drained

second cover the boat 18 oz vinyl cover. glues together almost no sewing required
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Found a crack in the above waterline cockpit drain hose, replacing them this weekend. I was unable to find the same white reinforced hose and have decided to use trident - 147 bilge hose. It seems to meet the requirements. any input would be appreciated.
Chris, Did the new hose seem to fix the problem? We've gotten water in our bilge this winter, but we've been under a cover! It's canvas and had pillowed down with gathered water in one spot, aft, which dripped into the cockpit. That's the only water that could have got in, so it must have been gone in the cockpit drains. Did you access those from the aft storage locker or the side lazarette?
 

Chschaus

"Voila"
Chris, Did the new hose seem to fix the problem? We've gotten water in our bilge this winter, but we've been under a cover! It's canvas and had pillowed down with gathered water in one spot, aft, which dripped into the cockpit. That's the only water that could have got in, so it must have been gone in the cockpit drains. Did you access those from the aft storage locker or the side lazarette?
Yes, it seems to have solved 90% of the issue, I was only able to change the two center drain lines accessed from the back lazarette. the outer port drain line I couldn't access the propane well is in the way and from the side locker the water heater is in the way. so I saved those for younger more flexible crew to be done at a later date. When I took the old lines home to measure accurately before buying new hose I filled them with water with one end plugged and it was like a sieve, there were cracks I couldn't even see while on the boat.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Based on my experience replacing all of our OEM bilge hose a few years ago, your boat has the OEM white ribbed hose. It is indeed overdue for replacement.
Loren
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Regarding routing of replacement cockpit drain hoses:

My boat had long aft drain hoses specifically installed to cross to prevent water coming in when heeled over. The hoses were newish, and heavy-duty beyond need.

I changed then to direct routing, not crossed (I needed a simpler route to accommodate the Cape Horn steering vane lines).

These straight runs were much shorter, eliminating the need to go around the rudder tube in order to cross. They did not admit any water in a round trip to Hawaii.

On many models it seems to me that crossing drain hoses is unnecessary and not worth the complication.

old drain hoses.JPG...new draIn hoses E381.jpg
Old drain hoses (white) .......................................... New "straight" hoses (dark)
 

Chschaus

"Voila"
Today's discovery. I'm pretty sure this is a major reason we found a lot of water in the bilge after a rain storm.
View attachment 42796 View attachment 42797

My most valued tools for the project:
View attachment 42798

Keep moving the rock forward.
I own multiple heat guns, did I think to bring one with me the day I was replacing the lines!? So in route to buy another ( quicker than the 2 hr round trip back home ) I came across a rental store, 12 dollars for the day. I now keep one in my truck at all times.
 

Chschaus

"Voila"
Regarding routing of replacement cockpit drain hoses:

My boat had long aft drain hoses specifically installed to cross to prevent water coming in when heeled over. The hoses were newish, and heavy-duty beyond need.

I changed then to direct routing, not crossed (I needed a simpler route to accommodate the Cape Horn steering vane lines).

These straight runs were much shorter, eliminating the need to go around the rudder tube in order to cross. They did not admit any water in a round trip to Hawaii.

On many models it seems to me that crossing drain hoses is unnecessary and not worth the complication.

View attachment 42799...View attachment 42800
Old drain hoses (white) .......................................... New "straight" hoses (dark)
That certainly would have made life a little easier, wish I thought of that.
 

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Regarding routing of replacement cockpit drain hoses:
My boat had long aft drain hoses specifically installed to cross to prevent water coming in when heeled over. The hoses were newish, and heavy-duty beyond need.
I changed then to direct routing, not crossed (I needed a simpler route to accommodate the Cape Horn steering vane lines).
These straight runs were much shorter, eliminating the need to go around the rudder tube in order to cross. They did not admit any water in a round trip to Hawaii.
On many models it seems to me that crossing drain hoses is unnecessary and not worth the complication.
This is brilliant, Christian. I have one question. It looks like your outer scuppers are routed to the central T (which on our boat goes to a seacock under the galley sink) and the inners are routed to the aft thru-hulls. Is that accurate? Ours is run the opposite, like this:
cockpit drain map.jpg
Because our hoses are so old, I'm assuming this was the factory set-up. I think if we eliminated the criss-cross but kept these exits we might get water in the cockpit when heeling. With all the sea time Thelonius II has seen, you almost certainly have experienced the conditions which would have revealed weird siphoning or some other problem. Can you think of any down-side to switching ours, as well as eliminating the criss-cross?
(technically, I asked you two questions)
Thanks,
Jeff
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
(Probably just an unnecessary extra data point.)
FWIW, our two cockpit drain hoses are not crossed. Years ago I admit to considering making that change because a book was touting it as 'proper', but I believe the need varies by boat model. As for the steering quadrant, yup, that would complicate things if we did try to make such a change in routing. The perceived need might also depend on predicting how many hours you might spend on one tack in driving rain or spray, maybe.
And then, for best "drain time" if a large quantity of water needs to exit, it's worth remembering that a more direct hose routing is advantageous.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Jeff,

Yes, the outer scuppers go to the central T. The center cockpit scupper hoses now go direct to their through-hulls.

The former owner, who was attentive and knowledgeable, no doubt replaced the original hoses, and he may have changed the routing. I don;t know what the factory routing was on this boat.

The current routing has never admitted any water to the cockpit even in severe conditions, so I don't see a downside. And that dark hose (from West Marine) was very easy to install.
 

steven

Sustaining Member
on blocks the boat trims differently than in the water so the water might collect where you are not accustomed to seeing it.

With unusual trim water can come in through weird places. For example if you are slightly bow down, water might get in through the
companionway slats - where it normally wouldn't.

When I haul I tell the yard to deliberately block so she trims slightly down by the stern, which on my boat collects water in the bilge near the center where the pump is located. And approximates where she trims in the water so there is no unusual pooling around through-deck fittings.

Nevertheless, we chase mystery leaks continually.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
This is brilliant, Christian. I have one question. It looks like your outer scuppers are routed to the central T (which on our boat goes to a seacock under the galley sink) and the inners are routed to the aft thru-hulls. Is that accurate? Ours is run the opposite, like this:

Over the years, I've heard people describe all possible combinations of configurations from the factory.

On mine, the center scuppers drain to the central T. The outers are not crossed, and each drains to a stern through-hull, however, each has a Marlon ball valve on top of that through hull.

I've never had water enter the cockpit through a scupper, but I figured that's what the ball valves are for. On a long voyage, if forced to hold a heeled tack that allowed water into the cockpit, you could close that valve.

As far as I know, this was the factory configuration ('85 model built in '84).
 
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