What's under the fiberglass floor, and is it ok to screw down on it?

[Vtonian]

I'm getting closer on my E38 wiring update and have repurposed the little area under the seat at the nav station as the central electrical cabinet for all the battery cabling. I'm trying to decide whether it matters to try to clamp all these down or leave them 'loose', although as stiff as they are, loose isn't accurate.
One thing that would help decide is whether there's any issue running screws into the floor there: if there is, I'd think of another way to minimize any vibration wear; if there isn't, I'd probably just use regular nylon clamps and screw each down separately.
A caveat here us that this whole project started because the dorade drain hose above it came loose and drained water in there, flooding it, because there is no drain in it. I don't know if that indicates anything about the space onder there but it looks like just glassed in plywood. Frankly, I'd prefer there was a drain under there, now that I've recommitted to having the electrical foundation of the boat installed there.
Any wisdom or knowledge out there on what lurks beneath?

 

[Vtonian]

And another argume t for not fastening them down is it's almost guaranteed that I will continue to drop screws, terminals and other tiny things down there, and moving cables around has been practical.
The rest of the system is above here and every old wire now has a jumper to extend it, so an additional 4 bits added in line: terminal in, screw, terminal out and screw...
Still in progress but you get the idea.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Regarding screws in the bottom of a boat, A Cautionary Tale:
- https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/e35-3-yet-another-thread-on-sole-replacement.19702/post-176941



I make a little block of teak with a hole and 5200 it to the hull. That becomes the anchor for a zip tie. You can buy similar industrial mounts, but I find the cost prohibitive. To make it removable, you could glue a block of wood to the hull surface and screw a cable tie to it. - The black stuff is cable chafe guard. I can't remember where I got it.





It probably doesn't matter, but are you using 'floor' in the technical nautical sense or more generic civilian?
"a structural member in the bottom of a ship, usually at every frame, and running athwartships from bilge to bilge"
"a horizontal surface more or less at the bottom"

Btw, the electrical work looks great. I need to do that but am procrastinating furiously.

 

[Christian Williams]

E381 - Mysteries of the Ericson Deck Dorade

Somewhere in the marketing mind of the Ericson design team, way back when, was a sensation of lack. What distinguished the boats from their expensive competition? On the showroom floor, what was the close that could make the sale? After all, a...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Vtonian]

Regarding screws in the bottom of a boat, A Cautionary Tale:
- https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/e35-3-yet-another-thread-on-sole-replacement.19702/post-176941
View attachment 55646


I make a little block of teak with a hole and 5200 it to the hull. That becomes the anchor for a zip tie. You can buy similar industrial mounts, but I find the cost prohibitive. To make it removable, you could glue a block of wood to the hull surface and screw a cable tie to it. - The black stuff is cable chafe guard. I can't remember where I got it.

View attachment 55644
View attachment 55645


It probably doesn't matter, but are you using 'floor' in the technical nautical sense or more generic civilian?
"a structural member in the bottom of a ship, usually at every frame, and running athwartships from bilge to bilge"
"a horizontal surface more or less at the bottom"

Btw, the electrical work looks great. I need to do that but am procrastinating furiously.

Exactly the problem I want to avoid!

Yes, thank you, I've put in screw blocks other places and it's worked well. In this case, I don't have much space to raise the cables, due to the mounting board for the emergency cut-off switch and SH150 fuse block. I think that would probably be the correct solution though.

I'd forgotten about the chafe guard, excellent thought, I can dig some of that up.

Yeah, no, just 'floor' like the thing we walk on, although in this application, arguably the most valuable feature of this installation is the floor space left open, which is just barely enough to snuggle my foot down into, so I have been able to sit mostly facing the work, rather than twisting and leaning, which wrecks my back in about 5 minutes. I've got more hours riding that seat now than I'll ever have navigating.

 

[Vtonian]

E381 - Mysteries of the Ericson Deck Dorade

Somewhere in the marketing mind of the Ericson design team, way back when, was a sensation of lack. What distinguished the boats from their expensive competition? On the showroom floor, what was the close that could make the sale? After all, a...

ericsonyachts.org

Ha! Hilarious *and* informative, the best use of time. I wanted to just plug that thing off but thought it might be bad juju or something. Thanks for the comic and real relief.

 

[FLokiDk]

And another argume t for not fastening them down is it's almost guaranteed that I will continue to drop screws, terminals and other tiny things down there, and moving cables around has been practical.
The rest of the system is above here and every old wire now has a jumper to extend it, so an additional 4 bits added in line: terminal in, screw, terminal out and screw...
Still in progress but you get the idea.

Hey i see you have started diving into the spaghetti mess like i. Ive actually pulled out 75 percent of the wires, just to better understand the shit, you know old boats and different owners various installments that is no longer present but wires left in the oddest places. Anyway, the reason i write was out of curiosity. Have you drawn up schematic/plan/illustration on how you would like the wires to end up. I would love to see it for inspiration for when i start rewiring things. Pictures for illustration is appreciated too. If you dont wanna spam em in here you can send em to rapanden@gmail.com Best of wishes from an erricson 38 in denmark.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Hey i see you have started diving into the spaghetti mess like i. Ive actually pulled out 75 percent of the wires, just to better understand the shit, you know old boats and different owners various installments that is no longer present but wires left in the oddest places. Anyway, the reason i write was out of curiosity. Have you drawn up schematic/plan/illustration on how you would like the wires to end up. I would love to see it for inspiration for when i start rewiring things. Pictures for illustration is appreciated too. If you dont wanna spam em in here you can send em to rapanden@gmail.com Best of wishes from an erricson 38 in denmark.

Hi Torben,

Great topic. These are some threads that address rewiring Ericsons. There are many more in this site, located with the search function.

E381 - Sailboat DC Electrical Panel Revision

See also "A Novice's Guide to Panel Reorganization," Parts 1 and 2 here. This project started with a sigh. The little I know about yacht distribution panels is more than I wish I knew, and a glance suggested hours of tedium ahead. The panel was...

ericsonyachts.org

E32-3 - Part 1--A Novice's Guide to Panel Reorganization

A yacht distribution panel that is a bad hair day from the 1980s is easy to ignore if the boat electronics sort of work. When I changed stereos last year I just crimped and crammed the new wires in. Then a few months later came a new GPS. Soon I...

ericsonyachts.org

E32-3 - Part 2--A Novice's Guide to Panel Reorganization

Every wire was now crudely identified. There were shiny new Blue Sea bus bars and connector strips to mount, so I cut pieces of half-inch marine plywood, painted it white to increase visibiity, and screwed it to a batten against the bare hull...

ericsonyachts.org

Do we trust the E38's 40yr old AC and DC breakers?

Fate has caught up with me so I'm updating the E38's wiring now, but as always, on a tight budget. That said, I try not to be penny wise and dollar dumb, so looking for brighter insights here. The first question is, can I trust the old breakers to do their job? I do have some melted bits on...

ericsonyachts.org

Rate my electrical panel

In the process of replacing the refrigeration unit in my 1987 32-3, I need to replace a DC power cable with a heavier gauge (the two white cables at left in the image). I bought the boat just 6 weeks ago, so this is the first time I have looked at the back side of the DC electrical panel. Does...

ericsonyachts.org

Dummy check my engine panel wiring?

I appreciate anyone's time if they're so bored on a Tuesday to read through this post. Just went through my engine panel and put new instruments on, spraypainted, removed the key start and added the push/pull. Made sure my switches are "MOM ON - NORMALLY OFF". Replacing the ammeter with the...

ericsonyachts.org

E32-3 - Battery Systems Upgrade

My big project for the winter was upgrading most of my battery-related systems. Though some of this had long been on the list, the whole lot got moved to the forefront when my old Newmar 25 AC charger died. At about the same time, one of my...

ericsonyachts.org

What's wrong with this electrical plan?

"There is no desire so universal as the desire to edit someone else's copy, sail trim, or electrical system." My new E381's electrical system is serviceable, and somewhat upgraded, but a bit heterogenous. For example, it still has a bow battery for the windlass, but no real charging plan for...

ericsonyachts.org

It's a lot to wade through, but I think you'll find them valuable. If you have a question about something, ask in that thread and we'll all benefit from the accumulated knowledge.

What engine do you have in your boat? Many of us have found it helpful to put some basic vessel info in the signature line of our profile. Click on your screen name in the blue band at the top of the page. Click 'signature'. It will get you more targeted answers. If you're browsing this on a phone, turn it sideways to see signature lines. I privately grumbled about not seeing sig lines on my phone for five years before I mentioned it in a post and someone enlightened me.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Vtonian]

Hey i see you have started diving into the spaghetti mess like i. Ive actually pulled out 75 percent of the wires, just to better understand the shit, you know old boats and different owners various installments that is no longer present but wires left in the oddest places. Anyway, the reason i write was out of curiosity. Have you drawn up schematic/plan/illustration on how you would like the wires to end up. I would love to see it for inspiration for when i start rewiring things. Pictures for illustration is appreciated too. If you dont wanna spam em in here you can send em to rapanden@gmail.com Best of wishes from an erricson 38 in denmark.

I don't have the final schematics yet, I'm still in the transition from theory to reality, but fully intend to wrap up my original post once I get to the point I have completed enough of the physical installation and testing to make the effort of doing the as-built version. So far, I have made maybe 20 or more different ones at various stages of my comprehension. An important piece others had said but I didn't really hear was the distinction but equal value of having a wiring diagram and a schematic, which I'll do once done enough to prove the theory.

I started this project only to improve what was a bad situation, not to perfect it, so I could have a reasonable expectation to head out on this summer's journey and trust the electrical system or at least know it well enough to jury rig my way out of any failures. That said, I always think what I'm doing is so obviously the same thing everyone else is doing, and am routinely baffled by the lack of explicit documentation on the way I'm going about mixing and matching things, which definitely makes me want to share my results, in hopes I'll save someone a bit of the time I've spent.

And Jeff is 100% right, this is an excellent partner for your fine and pleasant misery of owning and caring for an Ericson. I wish the PO of my boat had participated here, it would have likely answered a lot of questions, kind of an ad hoc CarFax for Ericsons. Please do digitally flesh out your profile and contribute. Questions and answers all have value.

 

[Drewm3i]

Regarding screws in the bottom of a boat, A Cautionary Tale:
- https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/e35-3-yet-another-thread-on-sole-replacement.19702/post-176941
View attachment 55646


I make a little block of teak with a hole and 5200 it to the hull. That becomes the anchor for a zip tie. You can buy similar industrial mounts, but I find the cost prohibitive. To make it removable, you could glue a block of wood to the hull surface and screw a cable tie to it. - The black stuff is cable chafe guard. I can't remember where I got it.

View attachment 55644
View attachment 55645


It probably doesn't matter, but are you using 'floor' in the technical nautical sense or more generic civilian?
"a structural member in the bottom of a ship, usually at every frame, and running athwartships from bilge to bilge"
"a horizontal surface more or less at the bottom"

Btw, the electrical work looks great. I need to do that but am procrastinating furiously.

@Vtonian

Some variation of this ^ (mounting block/wire tie glued/bonded to the hull with 5200/Epoxy/MMA is what I would also recommend. You do not want to drill holes into the structural grid, just as surely you do not want to leave electrical cabling unsupported on a seagoing vessel. ABYC says to support cabling every 18" for wire cabling and I think it makes a lot of sense as boats vibrate a whole lot while underway in a seaway.

 

[Vtonian]

Hey i see you have started diving into the spaghetti mess like i. Ive actually pulled out 75 percent of the wires, just to better understand the shit, you know old boats and different owners various installments that is no longer present but wires left in the oddest places. Anyway, the reason i write was out of curiosity. Have you drawn up schematic/plan/illustration on how you would like the wires to end up. I would love to see it for inspiration for when i start rewiring things. Pictures for illustration is appreciated too. If you dont wanna spam em in here you can send em to rapanden@gmail.com Best of wishes from an erricson 38 in denmark.

I didnt see but if you havent yet downoaded the original wiring schematics and other diagrams frombthe docs here, i think it's useful. At least youll have a general idea of original intent and probably much of the old color coding will help figure out what runs where. I think I gor around 70% accuracy from it, and also a few clues about why/what was changed.

 

[Christian Williams]

Ericson Document - E38 System Plot

E38 System Plot

ericsonyachts.org

Zip file for download.

Very useful, requires patience to expand and study.

 

[Vtonian]

Hey, so, y'all may have heard the saying, "DC won't kill you unless you deserve it". I think I may have tested that theory.

The other day, I was in my usual position of perching on the edge of the qtrberth with one leg down in the battey cable compartment and hunched over the fold out panel, a position I've been in for months now, but since it was 85deg out, this time i was wearing shorts only and was hot and sweaty. I leaned in to reach a wire and *BANG*, got the hardest shock I've ever had, from my elbow to my leg, bad enough I had to take a beat to make sure I was still ticking. As a precaution against becoming another meme mummy at a nav station, I quit for the day.

I assumed I was safe because all the AC was covered, but trying to figure out what happened later, the best I could come up with was that hot, sweaty, salty me had let my bare leg rest against the exposed negative bus in the compartment (I had made sure the positive bus was covered, so what could possibly go wrong), and when I leaned in over the back of the panel, my elbow rested on the hot side of the DC switch for the inverter/charger, which was on because you cant work without lights.

I knew to keep the I/C switch off to prevent shorts from DC, but didn't think about that one switch terminal still being hot and that DC can still be dangerous if you're careless enough. Hot sweaty bare limbs pressed firmly onto the posts of a 2000 watt I/C seem to be in the Darwin class of carelessness.

Don't be that guy.

 

[Christian Williams]

Instructive. Reminds me of "Senor Volta," who in a Tijuana bar would appear with a car battery hung from his neck by straps. One peso! You joined hands with all the girls, and with Senor Volta, and then zap! Woweee, a human chain of stimulation.

Now, more tequila please!

 

[Vtonian]

Instructive. Reminds me of "Senor Volta," who in a Tijuana bar would appear with a car battery hung from his neck by straps. One peso! You joined hands with all the girls, and with Senor Volta, and then zap! Woweee, a human chain of stimulation.

Now, more tequila please!

A good friend who may be the smartest person I know, when he was young, thought it was cool that you could feel a little shock if you touched a 9v battery to your tongue. Being the brilliant person he is, he wondered what it would feel like if you snapped a bunch of them together in series, then added a wire on each end and touched them to the fillings in your teeth on the roof of your mouth.

He woke up later, on the floor. Genius ain't always smart and curiosity doesn't always kill but it can definitely improve tequila sales.