Whisker pole size? Fittings?

[N.A.]

Forespar website says that for my E34 (or an E35) one needs a 10-18 pole (LC 10-18, #401106)... but elsewhere for heavy air with a genoa, it says I should get an LC 13’-24’, which is $1k more and heavier to boot. I think the reason is not length but diameter for handling heavier loads. And I do sail in the SF Bay area, though would not really be using the pole inside the bay.

My main concern is weight -- the weights are:
10-18: 17 lb
12-22: 28 lb
13-24: 39 lb

--> Rigger has recommended the larger pole (LC 13’-24’)... and rigger is familiar with SF Bay area sailing (where I am), and Hawaii trips, which is the plan. Still... asking here:

Question 1: Should I push back on this / get a smaller size? Maybe the in-between size of 12-22, which is 10 lb lighter?

While asking that, I'll also ask about end fittings.

Question 2: Pros and cons of the automatic jaws (UTR) vs line-pull (UTX) automatic sounds nice?

Question 3: Pros/cons of he socket-end fitting to mast track (UTS) -- fits onto a pin I have no idea... opinions?

--> What are you all using for offshore trips off the Pacific coast (or similar)?

As always, comments/advice appreciated.


PS: Looking at all-aluminum "Line Control" telescoping pole. Carbon fiber is expensive, and Christian had trouble with it (twice, if I remember the videos). That said, 39 lb is pretty heavy... so I see the attraction.

Links:

https://www.forespar.com/DownwindPoleByBoatModel/index.php

https://www.forespar.com/pdf/techTips/Whisker-Pole-Buyers-Guide-Tech-Tip.pdf

https://www.forespar.com/ForesparCatalog.pdf

 

[ConchyDug]

*Whispers* Buy a used spinnaker pole that fits the "J" dimension. You can find used carbon poles and change end fittings as you see fit. I'd rig a topping lift on a clutch or camcleat then the weight is less of a factor. Socket fittings are for bigger boats that do dip pole gybes and some boats have reaching struts with sockets.

Had a whisker pole sold it and bought a used spinnaker pole for $200 or $400 haven't looked back.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@N.A.
What kind of sailing will you be doing? Sounds like 'aggressive' cruising, since you include Hawaii. Racing?
Will you be short handed or with more than, say, four crew?
What kind of sail(s) will you use the pole for?
In what circumstances and conditions do you anticipate using the pole?
How much experience do you have using a pole, working bow?

 

[Loren Beach]

I recall sailing, as a guest, under the GG bridge on a sister ship with a 100% headsail (might have been more or less, blame this on poor memory). And, being told that sailors in the Bay often change headsails between winter and summer conditions.
What size (overlap) is your sail? The distance out to the clew will make all the difference in pole shopping, seems like.

Disclosure: our boat came with a Forespar spinnaker pole with self-latching ends, and no whisker pole. Due to lack of interested crew and ambivalence I seldom fly the tri-radial chute. Of course that behavior might be different if I were not sailing on a river with chanel and commercial vessel constraints.

 

[southofvictor]

We run with the pole longer than our J. I’ve been taught that you want your pole length to be about equal to your headsail’s foot length, so if you plan on using the pole with different sails you might want an adjustable one. We have a 115 and a 135 so it’s about a 3’ difference depending on headsail.

We have an aluminum 13-24 with the socket/pin end on the track so it’s pretty easy to handle with one end always attached, but it is on the heavy side if we’re rolling.

The automatic jaw is nice, one less hand needed to rig the sheet or hook it to the deck. Just be sure to keep your fingers out of it when it’s open, it’ll cause some first rate swearing if it closes on them.

 

[Christian Williams]

A long pole is necessary for Hawaii, where you will be dead downwind for many miles. Don't skimp on pole diameter as the effect of forces is magnified by length. Avoid carbon fiber unless you want to carry a spare pole.

I think heavy is not a problem if you have crew, or are strong and athletic. In trade winds , jibing technique becomes important, especially for one person. There can be a lot of it.

The trades often vary by 10 degrees or more when DDW. Therefore it might be worth considering, for cruisers, to zigzag and not be DDW at all. That would increase distance but might mean a passage time of only a day or two difference, and would reduce rolling, which the Ericson form is subject to under certain conditions.

Forespar Line Control pole is convenient, since the pole length has to be changed whenever the genoa size is altered a lot by roller furling. Button telescoping models are more secure but can be awkward to adjust if the pole mounts high on the mast. Note that the mount on the mast does not need to change position if you use only one roller-furling jib, as clew height does not change during roller furling (therefore no mast track required). A low mount makes pole work easy, even if the pole is not "level." I like a level pole myself, 'cause it looks better, but I doubt a moderately canted pole is an issue.

Whisker pole en route Hawaii is generally very useful--just get one that is long enough, strong enough (diameter as recommended by forespar), and with end fittings that work. It will be much in use.

 

[N.A.]

Thanks folks, and Christian for his (as usual) especially complete and very helpful advice, and @southofvictor for comments on the specific pole.
--> Based on the advice, I'll probably get the 13-24 pole like SouthofVictor's.

(Only if you wanted to know my reasoning):

@Prairie Schooner : I should have been more explicit: I singlehand mostly, do not race in any meaningful sense, and have limited foredeck experience (some, but not on a racing crew.) Foresails are a 90%, 135%, and maybe eventually a big drifter (~ 155%). I won't be using a pole in the bay (20 kt+ normal) since the runs are too short and traffic too heavy to make it worth the effort. Offshore here wind is often lower (5-15), and the runs longer (e.g. to Half Moon or Drake's Bay), so that's where I'd use it... and then there's for a desire to go to Hawaii. The latter is primarily why I am willing to spend the money.

If it were just the local offshore trips, I'd probably go with a smaller pole (or a used spinnaker pole -- thanks @ConchyDug), since I could always take it down when the wind climbed, and wouldn't be using it that much. But Hawaii is a different thing, and so I'll follow Christian's (and my rigger's, and SouthofVictor's) suggestion and get the larger-dia. 13-24 pole. I'll have a topping lift, so that... should (?) help with the ~ 40 lb weight of the thing I guess.

--> My assumption is that the weight will not be such a huge issue during gybes, due to the topping lift, and that most of the use to Hawaii would be for periods of 4+ hours in a row, possibly longer, limiting the number of times I have to manhandle the thing.

** If I am wrong about that, let me know -- I am old enough, and have enough injuries, that "strong and athletic" no longer holds, and constant wrestling with a 40-lb pig on a plunging foredeck is not deeply appealing. Once a day, twice a day, ok... but by the time I get to once every two hours for sure I'd want a lighter pole (unless the topping lift is magical in its help (which it may well be) -- my experience is with pretty light poles (J-24's) or larger poles but very calm/flat conditions (Catalina 36).

And all this reminds me that I need to go back to one of Christian's videos where he discusses (and maybe shows) his tightly-scripted sequence of actions for anything on the foredeck. Having that wired seems like a key to no injuries up there (pretty much everything else I can do from the cockpit.)

The assistance is much appreciated; thanks again. As I'm sure you've all experienced, any time you get ready to do work on the boat there are a sudden large number of linked/cascading decisions that need to be made in shorter order than one was necessarily primed for...

PS: Loren: yes, on SF Bay I (and I am not alone) go from my 135 (many use 120) in the winter to a 90 in the summer. There are usually some exciting times in the shoulder seasons when I have the 135 on too early or late The trickier part is the offshore stuff; the wind here is much lower offshore, so the 135 would be the primary jib/genoa there unless I was expecting a long period of very high wind (my 90% is heavier cloth, etc. etc.)

 

[Pete the Cat]

Thanks folks, and Christian for his (as usual) especially complete and very helpful advice, and @southofvictor for comments on the specific pole.
--> Based on the advice, I'll probably get the 13-24 pole like SouthofVictor's.

(Only if you wanted to know my reasoning):

@Prairie Schooner : I should have been more explicit: I singlehand mostly, do not race in any meaningful sense, and have limited foredeck experience (some, but not on a racing crew.) Foresails are a 90%, 135%, and maybe eventually a big drifter (~ 155%). I won't be using a pole in the bay (20 kt+ normal) since the runs are too short and traffic too heavy to make it worth the effort. Offshore here wind is often lower (5-15), and the runs longer (e.g. to Half Moon or Drake's Bay), so that's where I'd use it... and then there's for a desire to go to Hawaii. The latter is primarily why I am willing to spend the money.

If it were just the local offshore trips, I'd probably go with a smaller pole (or a used spinnaker pole -- thanks @ConchyDug), since I could always take it down when the wind climbed, and wouldn't be using it that much. But Hawaii is a different thing, and so I'll follow Christian's (and my rigger's, and SouthofVictor's) suggestion and get the larger-dia. 13-24 pole. I'll have a topping lift, so that... should (?) help with the ~ 40 lb weight of the thing I guess.

--> My assumption is that the weight will not be such a huge issue during gybes, due to the topping lift, and that most of the use to Hawaii would be for periods of 4+ hours in a row, possibly longer, limiting the number of times I have to manhandle the thing.

** If I am wrong about that, let me know -- I am old enough, and have enough injuries, that "strong and athletic" no longer holds, and constant wrestling with a 40-lb pig on a plunging foredeck is not deeply appealing. Once a day, twice a day, ok... but by the time I get to once every two hours for sure I'd want a lighter pole (unless the topping lift is magical in its help (which it may well be) -- my experience is with pretty light poles (J-24's) or larger poles but very calm/flat conditions (Catalina 36).

And all this reminds me that I need to go back to one of Christian's videos where he discusses (and maybe shows) his tightly-scripted sequence of actions for anything on the foredeck. Having that wired seems like a key to no injuries up there (pretty much everything else I can do from the cockpit.)

The assistance is much appreciated; thanks again. As I'm sure you've all experienced, any time you get ready to do work on the boat there are a sudden large number of linked/cascading decisions that need to be made in shorter order than one was necessarily primed for...

PS: Loren: yes, on SF Bay I (and I am not alone) go from my 135 (many use 120) in the winter to a 90 in the summer. There are usually some exciting times in the shoulder seasons when I have the 135 on too early or late The trickier part is the offshore stuff; the wind here is much lower offshore, so the 135 would be the primary jib/genoa there unless I was expecting a long period of very high wind (my 90% is heavier cloth, etc. etc.)

OK I see you are on SF Bay as I am half the year here as well and have sailed the Bay for 50 years. You have had a variety of suggestions and opinions. I had a huge telescoping aluminum pole that came with my Tartan 37 34 years ago. It was a huge sewer pipe thing and such a hassle to get into place and use (in my younger years I did foredeck on ocean racers) that I sold it cheap at a flea market 25 years ago and bought a J length carbon fiber spinnaker pole for my 95% (SF Bay) and 125% (Maine) sails. I have not looked back. I have never done the downwind trades for weeks on end and that might change my view, but on SF Bay and on my years of cruising from San Francisco to Maine via Panama, I never needed anything else with smaller headsails and the spinnaker poles are generally limited by racing rule to J length anyway. You are correct that the topping lift can help with heavier poles (you need a downhaul too), but I found just wrestling a big heavy one into place and storing it just took the fun out of using a pole for downwind and spinnaker runs--and added risk for a guy working the boat single handed as I often do. I have a plain old aluminum spinnaker pole of J length with lightweight ends on my Ericson 32-200 (95% sail for the Bay which I recommend if you only have one) which might make some coastal trips, but is mainly used in going to the Delta and on light air days on SF Bay. So, as others have suggested, the choice depends on where you are going. A J length fixed pole is not only easier to handle but I think is a good deal safer; you are less likely to roll and stick it into a wave than a longer one. Just another perspective.

 

[N.A.]

Thanks!

Anyone interested: Here is an interesting discussion from a well-regarded local site (local racers use the current tables from this site):
https://l-36.com/using_whisker_pole.php

@southofvictor --
* The L-36 page above suggests one really wants the pole jaws to face up, so when released the sheet will pop out. Otherwise it says the sheet will stay in the jaws in a hard-to-release way (sheet will rise and hard to get pole high enough to get it free). Mast storage seems to require jaws face down at sheet/guy end?
--> Do you encounter this "hard to get pole free: issue / see this as a reason to get a non-pin version?

* they use a 12-22 pole... but are ambivalent about going up one more. Do you think that would work, or is the 13-24 truly worth the extra 10 lb?
--> I ask about the smaller pole because... I am neither young nor really strong, and the idea of wrestling a 40lb pole in the inevitable "I really want this down NOW" moments is a bit daunting. But maybe unreasonably so.. hence the request for advice.

@Christian Williams --
* By tacking downwind, would one then not need a pole _at all_? Or just less often?
A quick calculation indicates sailing 15 deg off of DDW as you suggest adds only 3.5% to the length of a trip... so in theory not even a day on the way to Hawaii.

* I went back to the video for your 2021 Hawaii trip to try to figure out what size pole you were using (I did note you have the jaws facing up : ) , and could not tell... what size (dia.) was your pole? Maybe you were using this?
Whisker Pole, Carbon, Velocity 12-22 UXP/UXP Latch End-Latch End, 36' Boat Max.
The 12-22 should be fine, but yours broke... and the 13-24 carbon fiber one is much more expensive (and the 50/50 aluminum-carbon ones don't really save that much weight OR money.) If you were using a 12-22 and it broke, then maybe even the aluminum 12-22 wouldn't be enough.

@Pete the Cat, @ConchyDug -- Also thanks.
Why is a spinnaker pole better than a whisker pole? Is it that the lack of telescoping just makes it lighter? Or is it just a "easy to get cheap" consideration?
I definitely get that the less it weighs, the more I'm likely to use it...

 

[Christian Williams]

Whisker Pole, Carbon, Velocity 12-22 UXP/UXP Latch End-Latch End, 36' Boat Max.

Yes, that's the pole. Forespar recommended a larger model, with greater diameter. I had no issues with the simple latch ends, but probably the pole diameter was insufficient. I still don't know why the pole broke where it did, a foot and a half from the base, in pleasant 15-knot conditions with no foul or trauma.

 

[Pete the Cat]

Thanks!

Anyone interested: Here is an interesting discussion from a well-regarded local site (local racers use the current tables from this site):
https://l-36.com/using_whisker_pole.php

@southofvictor --
* The L-36 page above suggests one really wants the pole jaws to face up, so when released the sheet will pop out. Otherwise it says the sheet will stay in the jaws in a hard-to-release way (sheet will rise and hard to get pole high enough to get it free). Mast storage seems to require jaws face down at sheet/guy end?
--> Do you encounter this "hard to get pole free: issue / see this as a reason to get a non-pin version?

* they use a 12-22 pole... but are ambivalent about going up one more. Do you think that would work, or is the 13-24 truly worth the extra 10 lb?
--> I ask about the smaller pole because... I am neither young nor really strong, and the idea of wrestling a 40lb pole in the inevitable "I really want this down NOW" moments is a bit daunting. But maybe unreasonably so.. hence the request for advice.

@Christian Williams --
* By tacking downwind, would one then not need a pole _at all_? Or just less often?
A quick calculation indicates sailing 15 deg off of DDW as you suggest adds only 3.5% to the length of a trip... so in theory not even a day on the way to Hawaii.

* I went back to the video for your 2021 Hawaii trip to try to figure out what size pole you were using (I did note you have the jaws facing up : ) , and could not tell... what size (dia.) was your pole? Maybe you were using this?
Whisker Pole, Carbon, Velocity 12-22 UXP/UXP Latch End-Latch End, 36' Boat Max.
The 12-22 should be fine, but yours broke... and the 13-24 carbon fiber one is much more expensive (and the 50/50 aluminum-carbon ones don't really save that much weight OR money.) If you were using a 12-22 and it broke, then maybe even the aluminum 12-22 wouldn't be enough.

@Pete the Cat, @ConchyDug -- Also thanks.
Why is a spinnaker pole better than a whisker pole? Is it that the lack of telescoping just makes it lighter? Or is it just a "easy to get cheap" consideration?
I definitely get that the less it weighs, the more I'm likely to use it...

I find the carbon spinnaker pole just lighter and easier to use than my old huge telescoping thing. In my experience the trade off was almost nothing in performance. And if the weight or clumsiness of the pole is going to keep you from using it, you sort of need to think of that. I get up and put the pole in often down wind, but I use moderate sized jibs. Maybe if you routinely used 135% plus and do a lot of downwind work it would be worth it.

 

[southofvictor]

You can easily spin the pole on the pin fitting at the mast end to get the jaws lined up the way you want them for deployment or stowage. You just want to make sure not to spin the inner shaft inside the outer shaft, but rather the whole unit at once.

As for size, is your E-34 one with a 15’ J or 13.5’? The 12-22 could be a good fit. It’s one size bigger than the base spec from forespar and it’s 11 lbs lighter than the 13-24.

 

[ConchyDug]

@Pete the Cat, @ConchyDug -- Also thanks.
Why is a spinnaker pole better than a whisker pole? Is it that the lack of telescoping just makes it lighter? Or is it just a "easy to get cheap" consideration?
I definitely get that the less it weighs, the more I'm likely to use it...

They are bulletproof and simple generally you'll have a mast end release T-handle on the nicer ones which make gybing less chaotic in sporty conditions. Spin poles are thicker walled than whisker poles in aluminum or carbon and can take abuse. I sail with a 139% Genoa and just furl up the sail a little if it flogs or has bad shape when poling it out. Sure in the super light air the extra projecting is nice but DDW in light air is pretty slow, I have a giant asym kite for downwind up to 16-18kts true wind. I just see a telescoping pole as unnecessary complication for what it accomplishes based upon my sail inventory. You can use the lazy genoa sheet to a bow cleat as a down haul no need for a dedicated pole downhaul unless you fly a sym kite off of it. I also see a 155%(#1) Genoa as unnecessary as these boats are decently fast in light air with a 139%(#2). I'd save the money on the new whisker pole and 155% and get a kite, then practice letterbox takedowns singlehanded. It's your journey though, I had a Selden whisker pole and used it fully extended a few times and it was a real PITA to rig.

 

[Christian Williams]

Spinnaker poles are fixed length, relatively short, and designed for huge forces.

Whisker poles have to be adjustable, for different jib sizes, and for square footage changed by roller furler. They are light-duty compared to a traditional spinnaker pole. Use has declined with advent of reaching with the new asyms. Still, for DDW with genoa winged out, or for control of a jib when reaching in light air and sloppy sea (pole rigged to leeward), nothing works better, and a "J"-length pole can be too short.

 

[windblown]

Spinnaker poles are fixed length, relatively short, and designed for huge forces.

Whisker poles have to be adjustable, for different jib sizes, and for square footage changed by roller furler. They are light-duty compared to a traditional spinnaker pole. Use has declined with advent of reaching with the new asyms. Still, for DDW with genoa winged out, or for control of a jib when reaching in light air and sloppy sea (pole rigged to leeward), nothing works better, and a "J"-length pole can be too short.

Thanks for such a clear explanation, Christian.
I’ve sometimes been confused by discussions and by “helpful” answers from dockside neighbors.
Finally, I am confident that what came with our boat is a spinnaker pole, not a whisker pole. It’s fixed length and mounted on a mast track. Now, if I could build the confidence on how to rig the tack on the asym at the bow of our 32-3, we just might fly the spinnaker that is in like-new condition, despite its age.
On the other hand, our lake conditions tend toward more than enough wind or very light air—with very few days just right—so a whisker pole to wing out the jib on light air days would would get a lot of use.

 

[Dave G.]

I am confident that what came with our boat is a spinnaker pole, not a whisker pole. It’s fixed length and mounted on a mast track

How long is it ? If about the right length the convenience of it already mast mounted is a big plus in my mind. Your "J" is about 14' so if it's within a foot of that it will work pretty good. Attach a topper and foeguy and try it out !

 

[bsangs]

Thanks!

Anyone interested: Here is an interesting discussion from a well-regarded local site (local racers use the current tables from this site):
https://l-36.com/using_whisker_pole.php

@southofvictor --
* The L-36 page above suggests one really wants the pole jaws to face up, so when released the sheet will pop out. Otherwise it says the sheet will stay in the jaws in a hard-to-release way (sheet will rise and hard to get pole high enough to get it free). Mast storage seems to require jaws face down at sheet/guy end?
--> Do you encounter this "hard to get pole free: issue / see this as a reason to get a non-pin version?

* they use a 12-22 pole... but are ambivalent about going up one more. Do you think that would work, or is the 13-24 truly worth the extra 10 lb?
--> I ask about the smaller pole because... I am neither young nor really strong, and the idea of wrestling a 40lb pole in the inevitable "I really want this down NOW" moments is a bit daunting. But maybe unreasonably so.. hence the request for advice.

@Christian Williams --
* By tacking downwind, would one then not need a pole _at all_? Or just less often?
A quick calculation indicates sailing 15 deg off of DDW as you suggest adds only 3.5% to the length of a trip... so in theory not even a day on the way to Hawaii.

* I went back to the video for your 2021 Hawaii trip to try to figure out what size pole you were using (I did note you have the jaws facing up : ) , and could not tell... what size (dia.) was your pole? Maybe you were using this?
Whisker Pole, Carbon, Velocity 12-22 UXP/UXP Latch End-Latch End, 36' Boat Max.
The 12-22 should be fine, but yours broke... and the 13-24 carbon fiber one is much more expensive (and the 50/50 aluminum-carbon ones don't really save that much weight OR money.) If you were using a 12-22 and it broke, then maybe even the aluminum 12-22 wouldn't be enough.

@Pete the Cat, @ConchyDug -- Also thanks.
Why is a spinnaker pole better than a whisker pole? Is it that the lack of telescoping just makes it lighter? Or is it just a "easy to get cheap" consideration?
I definitely get that the less it weighs, the more I'm likely to use it...

Hey @N.A. - what size whisker pole did you end up going with? We're adding one this year, and the 35-3 is right on the precipice of the Forespar dimensions. We use a 135 genoa, and Forespar recommends boats up to 35 feet should use LC 12-22 for Med Air and LC 13-24 for Heavy Air on a genoa. Of course, the 35-3 is 35'6" long, and they also recommend that boats up to 45 feet should use the 13-24 for Med Air and 15-27 for Heavy Air.

 

[N.A.]

Hello @bsangs - Unfortunately I cannot help you; I had enough conflicting advice that I decided I'd maybe buy a cheap used J-length pole, try it, and see if that worked for me. If not, then I'll go to the aluminum 13-24 almost for sure; can't afford that big a carbon one, and enough input on these forums suggesting that for Hawaii / my area a smaller one is dodgy. But remember, I sail in the SF Bay area, so 20-30 kts is not unusual at all (though whether I have the required fortitude to pole anything out in that singlehanded is an entirely different question.)

I had enough track put on that I can store a J-length pole on the mast; I decided I am old past the point of wrestling singlehanded what may be 40# up off what may be the lee stanchions.

The rigger also installed purchase so the pole would be easier to maneuver. I can send pictures next week -- can't get to the boat right now. I could tell you more, but I literally just got it back from the yard.

Anyway, my guess (* worth exactly $0) is that the 12-22 would be fine for everything one might normally do on the East Coast, if you're not offshore a lot... I never learned to reef when sailing out there, and only knew it as a nautical term until I hit SF Bay and had to do it every day. If it were me, and I was not planning something that seemed to really require a strong pole (for me, possibly, Hawaii) then I'd go with the 12-22, and just take it down if things heated up that much. Honestly, I have a sneaking suspicion I'd probably take a 13-24 down too at around the same windspeed, not out of fear of pole breakage but just more general terror. And if I'm not using the full strength of the pole, why get the heavier one? Anyway, the 12-22 works for the L36 boat (website link above) racing (higher wind) on SF Bay, just barely... so if you're in lower-wind conditions, I would think it's fine (you might google L36 sail areas to see if they're comparable to yours, though.)

I'll be getting something this summer, so if you want to wait I can update you in July after I've gotten whatever pole I try and used it a bit. Otherwise I may just be following your lead.

 

[bsangs]

Hello @bsangs - Unfortunately I cannot help you; I had enough conflicting advice that I decided I'd maybe buy a cheap used J-length pole, try it, and see if that worked for me. If not, then I'll go to the aluminum 13-24 almost for sure; can't afford that big a carbon one, and enough input on these forums suggesting that for Hawaii / my area a smaller one is dodgy. But remember, I sail in the SF Bay area, so 20-30 kts is not unusual at all (though whether I have the required fortitude to pole anything out in that singlehanded is an entirely different question.)

I had enough track put on that I can store a J-length pole on the mast; I decided I am old past the point of wrestling singlehanded what may be 40# up off what may be the lee stanchions.

The rigger also installed purchase so the pole would be easier to maneuver. I can send pictures next week -- can't get to the boat right now. I could tell you more, but I literally just got it back from the yard.

Anyway, my guess (* worth exactly $0) is that the 12-22 would be fine for everything one might normally do on the East Coast, if you're not offshore a lot... I never learned to reef when sailing out there, and only knew it as a nautical term until I hit SF Bay and had to do it every day. If it were me, and I was not planning something that seemed to really require a strong pole (for me, possibly, Hawaii) then I'd go with the 12-22, and just take it down if things heated up that much. Honestly, I have a sneaking suspicion I'd probably take a 13-24 down too at around the same windspeed, not out of fear of pole breakage but just more general terror. And if I'm not using the full strength of the pole, why get the heavier one? Anyway, the 12-22 works for the L36 boat (website link above) racing (higher wind) on SF Bay, just barely... so if you're in lower-wind conditions, I would think it's fine (you might google L36 sail areas to see if they're comparable to yours, though.)

I'll be getting something this summer, so if you want to wait I can update you in July after I've gotten whatever pole I try and used it a bit. Otherwise I may just be following your lead.

Appreciate the reply and the details. Following my lead is a dicey proposition, you can ask the many that have done so in other facets of life. If we get one, we'll be getting it before the first of our scheduled trips in June. We're not big offshore travelers. Mainly LI Sound, Block Island Sound and up to MV and Nantucket. Though we are flirting with the idea of skirting the outside of Long Island. But it's the size of our genoa that has me leaning toward the 13-24 as a "just in case" measure. I'll be talking to a Forespar rep, and a very experienced Ericson 38 owner that stays at my marina. Thanks again.

 

[N.A.]

In case anyone else looks at this later for information:

- I ended up getting a Forespar 13-24 pole, all aluminum, set up for mast storage. Nominally about 40 lbs. It has arrived; the notable things are:

1) wow, is 15 ft (or maybe 13', the collapsed pole length) longer than I thought it would be (not that I didn't know it would reach the forestay, just that when encountered directly that length is more than I had envisioned. It's a long pole. I would not want to be maneuvering a pole this long up from storage mounts on the stanchions no matter how little it weighed.

2) properly set up mast track makes handling it very low-effort. Less effort than any other lines I haul on anywhere on the boat. Mast track control line set up for 2:1 purchase may be the reason this is so easy, but... it really is easy. Can provide details if anyone wants them.

3) The pole, even at 3.5" dia., seems... not that thick. I am absolutely glad I did not go for a smaller pole, at least given the winds around here. Less would feel unsafe to me, even at the dock : )

I'll update after I use it for a while, but figured the above might be useful to someone in the interim.