Whitlock / Lewmar steering pedestal issue

[N.A.]

My wheel keeps coming loose, which may be linked to the fact that my Raymarine wheel-autopilot clutch is unhappy and doesn't like to release fully (which makes me nervous). Unfortunately, my pedestal is made by Whitlock, which is out of business. Whitlock seems to have been bought by Lewmar... and Lewmar, though still selling a very similar-looking item (the Cobra or Enguard pedestals) makes pretty much zero maintenance (or any) information available on the web. [That lack has seriously decreased my confidence in Lewmar for anything, hatches, you name it... by comparison with all the helpful information Edson puts up, Lewmar looks worse than bad.]

Anyway, I would appreciate any assistance:

- The boat is a 1998 Pacific Seacraft - built Ericson 350, with rack & pinion steering. Does anyone know which model Whitlock pedestal went into boats of that vintage?

- The problem is that nut securing the wheel keeps coming loose. I could toque the nut securing it to death with a wrench, but... figured maybe I'd ask for help before I break it instead of after The securing nut is easily visible once the center/hub brake knob is removed from the wheel (image below).

- Any information on where to find Lewmar (or Whitlock) maintenance manuals/info for their Cobra/Enguard pedestal products would be very much appreciated... a fair bit of googling has turned up more similar complaints by others than actual information, but I am hoping I've missed something.

Many thanks!


PS: I have already found the thread

Rudder and wheel alignment

Last year, after anchoring in a cut where the tide ran against the wind, the rudder was pinned to one side (middle of the night) and the next morning the wheel and rudder were no longer centered….After examining the quadrant linkages, I don’t see where there was anyway they could have moved. So...

ericsonyachts.org

but my pedestal wheel does not match the Cobra 4R manual, nor the Cobra 6R jpg posted there (the 6R shows no nut like mine has; the 4R has a brake on the side and no nut).

PPS:
In case anyone else turns up this thread down the line, the following guy turns up (who I have not yet contacted -- he is in the UK and has no manual online, though may know answers):
Cliff Mogridge.
Whitlock South / Winch Servicing
+44 (0)7970 820522
cliff@winchservicing.com

http://www.winchservicing.com/

Home - Whitlock Steering

www.whitlocksteering.com

Shop – YACHT STEERING SERVICES

This is where you can browse products in this store.

yachtsteeringservices.com

 

[Loren Beach]

Does that nut visible in the second picture loosen?
I have seen a 'fix' for a similar problem with the more common YS steering wheel on an 80's E-32-3,, where someone drilled thru the nut and the shaft. Then pinned it with an Aerofast Detent Pin. http://aerofastinc.com

(Drilling thru the SS shaft must have been a bit challenging, IMO.)

 

[Christian Williams]

Not familiar with your rig, but check whatever it is the nut "pushes against." On some YS pedestals, it's a restraining ring on the wheel shaft. If that ring loses its grip, deforms or is missing, the nut comes loose simply because it hs nothing to "push against." Please excuse the technical language.

Will a big lock washer fit? Looks like not, but I put one on my YS wheel nut.

Re the Ray wheel pilot--take it apart. The mechanism and clutch are very simple, and whatever's wrong will be apparent. Two factors restrain the clutch: the tightness of the screw that holds the pivot point, and the lump of plastic that acts as a detent. Also, the mechanism may have a lot of salt or dirt buildup from the atmosphere, they need frequent hosing out.

Video here.

 

[N.A.]

Thanks to both of you!

Loren: The nut does loosen; in fact, that's the problem -- it keeps coming loose, and then the wheel wobbles. I don't want to stake the nut (which is what I think you are describing); the wheel must have worked for years without needing that. Something is missing, and... if I only had a diagram... I could figure out what. I bet it is a spring clip (the "restraining ring" Christian mentions?) or something, but am not sure. Whatever it is seems like it must go in behind the nut, since there is little space to attach anything outside of the nut.

Christian: Thanks: I agree, and the wheel pilot does look simple. I had already tightened the pivot screw, but that did not help (and made the clutch lever hard to move). I'm pretty sure the slop in the wheel position has something to do with the unhappy Raymarine wheel pilot (and the loose wheel is a hassle to keep tightening every 30 minutes anyway). The Raymarine installation manual is specific that the distance from the wheel to the Raymarine wheel attachment is important, and has some tolerance. For that reason, before I spend time on the Raymarine I want to fix the wheel issue... which is what leads me to the problem fo Whitlock information. After that I will definitely follow your advice and fully disassemble the wheel part fo the wheel pilot; makes sense it would accumulate crud.

 

[Christian Williams]

The only thing that matters regarding the distance of ball-bearing ring to pedestal is that the crude Raymarine pin on pedestal enters the hole designed for it. It just keeps the ring body from rotating. If perhaps the pin is too long, and is distorting the ring body, just saw it off a little shorter.

 

[Afrakes]

Apply some Loctite to the wheel nut threads.

 

[1911tex]

You don't want it where it is difficult to remove...in case something goes broke and you need to use the emergency tiller....the wheel has to be removed. If locked tight, keep a wrench in the rear locker.

 

[Christian Williams]

Why have to remove the wheel for the emergency tiller? I plan to use it "backwards," as it would hit the pedestal anyhow. No?

 

[Nick J]

I like removing mine when I'm at a dock while cruising. I end up with far less bruises on my hips after a long weekend. I did it a few times at anchor, but quickly realized that wasn't the best idea if the Anchor started dragging.

 

[1911tex]

Why have to remove the wheel for the emergency tiller? I plan to use it "backwards," as it would hit the pedestal anyhow. No?

I tried experimenting with the emergency tiller some time back (which may be a good idea for all Captains?). My tiller handle does not hit the pedestal; however the wheel must be removed. Perhaps a P/O cut the handle length to just miss the pedestal? It seems if backwards, leverage is compromised..I don't know?

 

[Christian Williams]

I tried out the backwards emergency tiller on my 32-3--that model may have a different distance to pedestal. It worked OK, although even with a 3'+ "handle" the leverage wasn't good. But I thought that, if it came to that, lines could be rigged to at least assist the "backwards" helmsman.

Even so, it was better than a 45-foot center-cockpit Choy Lee, where when the steering system broke somebody was assigned to be stuck below in the owner's cabin, sitting amid his deconstructed double bed and steering blind with a short tiller guided only by a portable compass .

 

[N.A.]

Many thanks for the helpful comments!

Emergency tiller:
I checked the emergency tiller (good idea for sure), and it is weird -- the ones I have seen before, the crossbar goes sideways, but this one requires either removing the pedestal (not just the wheel) to run forwards, which sounds crazy to try to do in an emergency, or if run back it only allows the equivalent rudder motion of 1/2 wheel turn in either direction, far less than full range.

--> Is this normal for emergency tillers?

I am trying to figure out whether to cut down the cross bar so it does not hit the stern pulpit when turning past 1/2 wheel turn equivalent. Loathe to cut uo the emergency till, but also loathe to depend on this weirdness [it does seem pretty surely the original unit, FWIW]. Another option I guess would be to fabricate some other crosspiece that works better.

Oddly there is also no system for securing the crosspiece into the vertical tube -- it can just fall out if you push it either way, which seems crazy. I am unsure whether some clamps or maybe just drilled holes with some pins (easy to install in a hurry...) will be best, but unsecured cannot stand.

Wheel:
1911Tex's advice came just in time, as a friend had convinced me to lock-tite it. Now I am looking for some sort of washer, and going to tape the appropriate box wrench to the emergency tiller tubes (along with the tool for getting the access cover off

 

[Loren Beach]

There is a chance that no one ever actually checked out this emergency system for function before the boat left the factory. That year was about the end of the small run of Ericson's built by PSC.
My boat has a similarly-described two piece scheme for the emergency tiller. As commented on before, it's workable...on a nice day. (sigh)

O34 - Emergency Tiller (wheel-steered boat)

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?134-quot-Key-quot-for-rudder-head-Deck-Plate A blog entry for the emergency tiller probably should have accompanied the earlier blog about accessing the rudder head under the screw-out deck...

ericsonyachts.org

(plus there is link within this link for another Ericson emergency tiller)

 

[Christian Williams]

Try the emergency tiller. Get familiar with it. It stores well and it works.

E32-3 Emergency Tiller Specs

Both the rudder post extension and the crossbar are 40" long 1/8th" wall aluminum tubes. The post extension has an outside diameter of 2 and 3/8ths. The crossbar ("tiller") diameter is 1 and 1/2". The slot in the post tube is 6" long, declining in width from 3/4" to 1/2". This rig makes a...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[N.A.]

Thanks again, to both of you. Christian, my tiller does not match your picture -- yours makes sense. My crosstube extends into the middle of the stern pulpit bars, seriously limiting its possible angular swing. I'm going to see how the boat works if I never turn the wheel past 1/2 turn, but think it probably won't tack in the winds we have all summer.

If so, I'll probably cut down the crossbar to allow more swing, and drill holes for a lanyard to connect the bars (and the bars to the boat), as well as for pins to hold the crossbar in. Maybe also something (a bolt) to make rigging tackles easier if it becomes necessary.

 

[Christian Williams]

I think most of the time when the steering gives out it's a break of the chain or cable, a jam-up, a busted sprocket--stuff like that. The emergency tiller lets you motor to the nearest port. If far offshore, a fix to the pedestal steering issue would be necessary and probably possible, with innovation. Of course if the rudder itself is compromised that would be a separate challenge, but in some or even many cases a boat can be directed toward a port using sail trim, steering drogues, a sweep and so on.

The Ericson rudder post is actually in a fairly handy location for the emergency tiller. It would also be possible, in the event of irreparable damage to the steering mechanicals or quadrant, to dismount the pedestal entirely. Then the emergency tiller could take a jury rigged extension and operate more like a regular tiller. And with control lines, it could even be steered by most self-steering vanes, or at least helped out with bungee-cord jib-sailing techniques.

But all this is of course unlikely for the prudent mariner, and we need only prepare in our minds for such events, and have a general plan, he said to himself , uh, convincingly.

 

[Rocinante33]

Apply some Loctite to the wheel nut threads.

Locktite blue allows for later removal. It has some thread "glue", but not very, very strong. Locktite red is for more permanent applications.