1971 E27 head odor…

[RedXII]

So this is a new to me boat, I enjoyed my first season of boat ownership here in Milwaukee sailing the Great Lake Michigan!

However I did not enjoy the smell of my head, which has been pumped out right when I bought her. The previous owner is a member at my yacht club and he’s very helpful with any questions I have on the systems of this old girl. He said he just ignored the smell and used the head often. I do not use the head, nor do my crew/passengers. Pee in a bucket with a line tied to it, throw it overboard and pull it up. It ain’t fun but I want to get this boat smelling better asap so for now the head is off limits.

I’m going to try and tackle it by using some products initially, I’m considering trying water with bleach and just pumping out over and over again to see if that’ll get me started. Next plan of attack is the hose that goes to the bow for the pump out systems at the dock.

Is bleach safe to use in these systems? Is it okay for the pump out station? Or should I try an alternative? In either case I’d like the system to be as clean as possible before I crack it open for reasons I’m sure I don’t need to explain.

I’ve also read that there is a vent hose to inspect but I don’t remember seeing anything of the sort.

Or is it possible I have another issue with the plumbing itself? I don’t see any leaks on the tank or the hose as far as I can tell.

Thanks!

 

[Loren Beach]

I wonder how old the head hoses are? A reliable test for permeation is to wring out a rag with warm/hot water and rub it on a hose and smell that rag.
(That's how I confirmed that our diesel fill hose was permeating, even tho the surface appeared to be dry.)

 

[Frank Langer]

If the hoses are old, replace them. Ensure that your vent hose is in place and not blocked--check the screen. Use a pumpout station, refilling your holding tank with clean water and pumping it out at least five times. There are chemical Shock Treatment bottles for boats and rv's--add it to the tank as per directions, go sailing to slosh it around, then pump out again. Finally, use only one kind of head treatment for ongoing odor control, as they can sometimes interfere with each other. Odorlos is one of the better brands, available at most chandleries, though it's a bit pricey.
Frank

 

[RedXII]

If the hoses are old, replace them. Ensure that your vent hose is in place and not blocked--check the screen. Use a pumpout station, refilling your holding tank with clean water and pumping it out at least five times. There are chemical Shock Treatment bottles for boats and rv's--add it to the tank as per directions, go sailing to slosh it around, then pump out again. Finally, use only one kind of head treatment for ongoing odor control, as they can sometimes interfere with each other. Odorlos is one of the better brands, available at most chandleries, though it's a bit pricey.
Frank

I’ll have to get back to the boatyard this week to try and track/follow the vent hose.

I think that’s the right move though for now, dock at the pump station, run fresh water through the systems and pump out, rinse and repeat a few times. I’ve become pretty good pals with all the dockmasters at my yacht club so I’m sure they’ll be more than happy to help. Then I’ll try an odor treatment and go from there. At least when I replace the hose I’ll know it’s relatively clean.

Thank you for the information Frank it’s much appreciated.

 

[Christian Williams]

I'd leave a big dose of Odorlos in the tank for a week or two before multiple pump-outs with detergent.

But if it's the hoses (Loren's test, above) they need to be changed, nothing else will stop the smell.

I take it you're in lake water, but even so a switch to fresh water (i.e., tankage) flush may help eliminate bad smells. Pretty much mandatory for salt water boats.

Here's a two-part series from Practical Sailor:

Stopping Holding-tank Odors - Practical Sailor

We tasked our resident chemical engineer to help us tame terrible holding tank odors, the bane of marine sanitation.

www.practical-sailor.com

 

[shard7]

I still notice a slight odor on my E27 due to the old waste hoses (planning to replace those over the winter), but it's been much better since I sorted out the vent line.

The existing vent line was run with the clear hose normally used for water (so it did little to block odors) and it followed some tight bends that kinked it and blocked air flow. Replacing it with non-permeable waste hose and adding elbow fittings for the tight corners made a big difference.

 

[RedXII]

I'd leave a big dose of Odorlos in the tank for a week or two before multiple flushes with detergent.

But if it's the hoses (Loren's test, above) they need to be changed, nothing else will stop the smell.

I take it you're in lake water, but even so a switch to fresh water (i.e., tankage) flush may help eliminate bad smells. Pretty much mandatory for salt water boats.

Here's a two-part series from Practical Sailor:

Stopping Holding-tank Odors - Practical Sailor

We tasked our resident chemical engineer to help us tame terrible holding tank odors, the bane of marine sanitation.

www.practical-sailor.com

I still notice a slight odor on my E27 due to the old waste hoses (planning to replace those over the winter), but it's been much better since I sorted out the vent line.

The existing vent line was run with the clear hose normally used for water (so it did little to block odors) and it followed some tight bends that kinked it and blocked air flow. Replacing it with non-permeable waste hose and adding elbow fittings for the tight corners made a big difference.

Where does this hose vent out to? I haven’t been able to find any thruhull fittings near the waste tank on the outside of the boat.

 

[Tin Kicker]

My guess is that with the number of years on those parts, the only way to get rid of the smell will be to disassemble much of it, clean beneath the stool and waste tank, then reassemble with new hoses. When I bought the 1988 ODay the head wasn't the worst I'd smelled but I could not get rid of the odors and once I started to take everything apart it was shocking how much was hidden.

For example, I'd washed the head out extensively and it still missed this mess hiding under the footprint of the stool.

Once those hoses were pulled out, more could be seen in the holes. Look at the brown on the hoses in this photo and you can see what was on them where they were in hidden spaces. Beneath the waste tank wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be, but there was stuff there too to flush out.
fwiw - I probably used about a half gallon of OdoBan (Home Depot) because it neutralizes the enzymes.

By the time I was going to replace the broken valves, rebuild the old head, and replace the old hoses it seems to me I was looking at over $400 in parts. I found somebody on Craigslist who'd bought a Natures Head for a van, never installed it, and got that for $600. I love this thing, have NO odors anymore, can store a years supply of coconoir or peat moss where the waste tank was, and never want to go back to a wet toilet.

btw - If anybody wants the old Wilcox Crittenden stool, it's yours for your paying the shipping. I also have 5 spare handles and other parts because they came with the boat.

 

[peaman]

Where does this hose vent out to? I haven’t been able to find any thruhull fittings near the waste tank on the outside of the boat.

See if you have a vent cover like this on your hull near the head. That's what I have, just below the rub rail. A copper tube passes from the hull to connect to the vent hose.

 

[shard7]

Where does this hose vent out to? I haven’t been able to find any thruhull fittings near the waste tank on the outside of the boat.

On our '74 the vent line ends at a thru hull on the starboard side, just fore of the v-berth bulkhead. It's accessible from the storage cubby inside. It's pretty far down the side of the hull, so not easily visible while standing on deck (but I can easily reach it by laying down and reaching over the edge).

 

[RedXII]

Okay I’ll be getting to the yard this weekend and checking it out, now I know what I’m looking for thank you!

 

[RedXII]

My guess is that with the number of years on those parts, the only way to get rid of the smell will be to disassemble much of it, clean beneath the stool and waste tank, then reassemble with new hoses. When I bought the 1988 ODay the head wasn't the worst I'd smelled but I could not get rid of the odors and once I started to take everything apart it was shocking how much was hidden.

For example, I'd washed the head out extensively and it still missed this mess hiding under the footprint of the stool.

Once those hoses were pulled out, more could be seen in the holes. Look at the brown on the hoses in this photo and you can see what was on them where they were in hidden spaces. Beneath the waste tank wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be, but there was stuff there too to flush out.
fwiw - I probably used about a half gallon of OdoBan (Home Depot) because it neutralizes the enzymes.

By the time I was going to replace the broken valves, rebuild the old head, and replace the old hoses it seems to me I was looking at over $400 in parts. I found somebody on Craigslist who'd bought a Natures Head for a van, never installed it, and got that for $600. I love this thing, have NO odors anymore, can store a years supply of coconoir or peat moss where the waste tank was, and never want to go back to a wet toilet.

btw - If anybody wants the old Wilcox Crittenden stool, it's yours for your paying the shipping. I also have 5 spare handles and other parts because they came with the boat.

Very informative and yikes that’s some nasty stuff! Any recommendations on hose to replace mine with when I inevitably go that route.

 

[Tin Kicker]

Basic sanitation hoses are pretty generic and can be found at any marine supply including West Marine.

Strong suggestion: Do one at a time.

Tip: A heat gun makes the white plastic hoses bend and flex MUCH more easily.

 

[peaman]

I just finished replacing my hoses. I used mostly Trident 102 (I like the white color over the black 101), but I also used some Raritan SaniFlex. As far as I can tell, they are both at the top in resistance to odor (per the "Head Mistress" Peggie Hall), but Raritan is considerably more flexible. If I were to do it again (please, no), I would go with the Raritan.

Note that the SaniFlex hose has two reinforcement wires versus the single wire in the Trident hose. A very good wire cutter is needed to avoid ending up with exposed wire or mis-shaped ends from bent wires. I used a Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel, which worked pretty well.

 

[Pete the Cat]

My guess is that with the number of years on those parts, the only way to get rid of the smell will be to disassemble much of it, clean beneath the stool and waste tank, then reassemble with new hoses. When I bought the 1988 ODay the head wasn't the worst I'd smelled but I could not get rid of the odors and once I started to take everything apart it was shocking how much was hidden.

For example, I'd washed the head out extensively and it still missed this mess hiding under the footprint of the stool.

Once those hoses were pulled out, more could be seen in the holes. Look at the brown on the hoses in this photo and you can see what was on them where they were in hidden spaces. Beneath the waste tank wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be, but there was stuff there too to flush out.
fwiw - I probably used about a half gallon of OdoBan (Home Depot) because it neutralizes the enzymes.

By the time I was going to replace the broken valves, rebuild the old head, and replace the old hoses it seems to me I was looking at over $400 in parts. I found somebody on Craigslist who'd bought a Natures Head for a van, never installed it, and got that for $600. I love this thing, have NO odors anymore, can store a years supply of coconoir or peat moss where the waste tank was, and never want to go back to a wet toilet.

btw - If anybody wants the old Wilcox Crittenden stool, it's yours for your paying the shipping. I also have 5 spare handles and other parts because they came with the boat.

You had more problems when you opened this up than you mentioned. The PO. apparantly used BILGE hose for sanitary hose! Yikes. I have seen some FU situations before, that is a new one.

 

[Tin Kicker]

You had more problems when you opened this up than you mentioned. The PO. apparantly used BILGE hose for sanitary hose! Yikes. I have seen some FU situations before, that is a new one.

Yup, didn't mention poor clamping, lines chafing, etc.

 

[Alan Gomes]

You had more problems when you opened this up than you mentioned. The PO. apparantly used BILGE hose for sanitary hose! Yikes. I have seen some FU situations before, that is a new one.

Yup. Fundamentally the wrong hose. Never had a chance NOT to smell!

 

[Bolo]

The only way I was able to remove all of the stink from my head after I had my boat for a few years was to replace EVERYTHING. Toilet, all the hoses and a new waste tank. Then I try to use fresh water when flushing unless I’m at anchor and the fresh water tanks are low. I found that trying to just treat the smell alone was a loosing battle. Replacing it all was a stinky job but a necessary one because then you start with a new, clean system that just needs to be maintained. My 2 cents.

 

[Tin Kicker]

Yup. Fundamentally the wrong hose. Never had a chance NOT to smell!

Going back to my original message and what Bolo said…

Even after having the tank, stool, and hoses the boat still smelled. It wasn’t till LOTS of flushing and OdoBan that the smell was removed.

 

[RedXII]

Well I found the vent thru hull fitting. Looks like there is some debris in there but we will see how it all goes once the temperature changes a bit and I can start troubleshooting for real.

Now I’m noticing how awful my rub rail is. Not to mention the paint but that’s already on my list to take care of before splash day.