Slow leak?

[Ralph Hewitt]

After beach/surf launching last week (Ericson 38) with Keel pounding on the hard sand while getting a float, in main Blige on port side trickle leaking..
Not bolts.
We had lowered keel a little, backfield 5200, tightened bolts, fiberglassed smile.
After floating (yes keel pounding) water coming g in , looks like Gelcoat lifted or? About 4 gallons a day. Any ideas on how to repair?
Keep in mind no boat yard, travel lift or Crane.
In water only?

 

[Loren Beach]

Basics, if I understand the situation.
I believe that the top of the keel is pulled up against a flat mating surface, by the force/pressure from all of the bolts. A "gasket" is maintained by all of the sealant that was spread on the surfaces when the keel was attached and the bolts torqued up. The bottom of the boat is pretty thick in that whole area AFAIK.

I am puzzled by a reference to lifting gelcoat. I wish I had a useful suggestion, but just cannot imagine a permanent repair without a lift out, in protected waters, preferably at a yard.

If water is indeed penetrating thru layers of glass in the bilge, is there a visible crack anywhere?

 

[Alan Gomes]

With no boat yard, lift, or crane that is going to be a challenge. If you could somehow get to a lift, what I'd do is fill the bilge with water and look on the outside to see where the water comes out. From there you could strategize a repair.

Where would the closest boat yard or lift be to you? At some point you may have to pull the boat no matter what if the repair requires access from the outside, which it likely will.

 

[Bolo]

What do you mean. by "beach/surf launching"? So no lift was used to get your boat back in the water? You laughed it from a beach??!! Sounds risky and opens the possibility for damage which now seems to have happened. What kind of waters are you in? Is it possible to get a diver to take a look to see if there are any cracks in the hull or maybe a separation between the keel and the hull. Beyond that I agree with the other guys, you need to get to a lift. Maybe a temporary repair can be made by the diver till you get to a lift. 4 Gallons of water a day is a lot! Have you checked the torque on the keel bolts?

 

[Christian Williams]

Ralph is in Nicaragua, on an open Pacific beach with heavy waves, where his boat grounded and lost its rudder and was recently relaunched with a beach crane. HIs boatyard is a bunch of Sea Scouts, as I recall, and he is heroic in his efforts to keep a-agoin'. This from forum absorption, he can correct it.

All Ralph's issues make you shake your head and see how easy we have it.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Right. I noticed Ralph was in Nicaragua when I clicked on his name.

Still, my question for Ralph is how far is a proper boat yard with some kind of lift and an ability to put the boat on the hard? This is almost certainly going to be necessary--not just to diagnose the issue but to repair it. 4 gallons a day is manageable at present, but hopefully there is nothing about the particular damage in this case that might cause the situation to worsen. Is the boat capable of making it to a repair facility, and what sort of trip would that involve?

We're pulling for you, Ralph! And yes, this is quite a challenge. Sure hope you can work this out.

 

[Bolo]

Ralph posted some photos to a new thread which should be added to this one. Administrator can you fix this? In the meantime here is a link to that posting: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/like-flaking-off.20454/

If those are really cracks in the hull than his boat took a real pounding in the surf.

 

[Ralph Hewitt]

Ralph is in Nicaragua, on an open Pacific beach with heavy waves, where his boat grounded and lost its rudder and was recently relaunched with a beach crane. HIs boatyard is a bunch of Sea Scouts, as I recall, and he is heroic in his efforts to keep a-agoin'. This from forum absorption, he can correct it.

All Ralph's issues make you shake your head and see how easy we have it.

Thanks Christian

 

[Ralph Hewitt]

Thanks Christian...
Glad someone understands.
Anyone use Flex tape for temporary repairs in water?

 

[Ralph Hewitt]

Right. I noticed Ralph was in Nicaragua when I clicked on his name.

Still, my question for Ralph is how far is a proper boat yard with some kind of lift and an ability to put the boat on the hard? This is almost certainly going to be necessary--not just to diagnose the issue but to repair it. 4 gallons a day is manageable at present, but hopefully there is nothing about the particular damage in this case that might cause the situation to worsen. Is the boat capable of making it to a repair facility, and what sort of trip would that involve?

We're pulling for you, Ralph! And yes, this is quite a challenge. Sure hope you can work this out.

3 days or more to Dockside Crane. This is windy season with steady 20+ & gust over 35.
Leary about going to Sea with the leaks...
Thanks

 

[Kenneth K]

Anyone use Flex tape for temporary repairs in water?

I doubt any kind of tape is going to stick for long. Some caulks are marketed as "sticks to wet surfaces," but you would be limited to whatever the local shops carry. If you can find a wax toilet bowl ring (wax donut--used to install toilets), and a diver can locate a visible crack, maybe repeatedly and forcefully rubbing the wax into the crack could help temporarily. But once you put wax on it, nothing else will adhere until the wax is removed.

Also remember that any temporary repair on a keel joint might behave differently (I.e., might reopen) once the boat starts heeling/pitching under sail.

Good luck.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

On an Annapolis-Newport race years ago, the strut got torqued and it's mount was cracked. Chesapeake fish net/fence at 11pm. The pumps and a steady brigade with a 5 gallon bucket were able to keep up with the leak. For some crazy reason I had brought a bunch of tubes of plumbers epoxy putty along. The first long bead I applied was pushed off by the water pressure. So I mixed a little at a time and held it in place with my thumb. Body heat sped the cure enough that it would hold after about ten minutes. An inch at a time, we ultimately stemmed the leak. This was not even close to a permanent fix, but it got us home. The stuff is designed for wet repairs.
Since that incident, I always have some on a boat.
Ralph, is there a hardware store or plumbers supply nearby? After stopping the leak, though, I'd be worried about more extensive structural damage on your E38. Total respect to you for all you've accomplished thus far! Good luck.

 

[Jerry VB]

Flex Seal's Flex Paste and Flex Tape are advertised "can be applied [...] underwater." In the US, the Flex Seal products are commonly available in hardware stores. I got the tip on Flex Paste from Blacktail Studios (impressive YouTube demo). It is advertised to work under water. I have not used it on my boat, and hope I never have to, but I have used the Flex Paste on my roof to temporarily repair loose shingles and it worked well.

If you can use Flex Tape on the outside of the boat and it sticks as advertised, it has a big advantage that the water pressure will be working for you (pushing the tape in) rather than against you.

 

[u079721]

I went through this years ago, but was able to have the yard pull the boat and rebed the keel. Wonder if some underwater epoxy putty in any cracks would help? Or would that just fall out once the boat begins to work in a seaway?

 

[Ralph Hewitt]

I went through this years ago, but was able to have the yard pull the boat and rebed the keel. Wonder if some underwater epoxy putty in any cracks would help? Or would that just fall out once the boat begins to work in a seaway?

Question, did they pull mast?
How does a person tighten Keel Nuts upfront under mast step?

 

[peaman]

How does a person tighten Keel Nuts upfront under mast step?

Not sure of your boat, but mine had a small (3/4"x1"?) piece of teak covering a hole in the sole just forward of the mast and directly above the forward-most keel bolt. I also have an access opening into he bilge from an adjacent locker. A socket can be passed through the adjacent access opening and placed onto the keel bolt nut, and then a socket extension can be put through the hole in the sole to attach to the socket below the sole, and then attached to a wrench above the sole.

I hope that is clear.

 

[u079721]

Question, did they pull mast?
How does a person tighten Keel Nuts upfront under mast step?

Sorry but I can't remember whether it was possible on the 38 to access the center keel bolts under the mast plate without removing the mast and plate. In our case the boat was hauled, the keel was dropped, and the mast was pulled since the yard did not want the extra weight of the mast aloft if the boat was not being stabilized by the keel. I seem to remember though that is was just possible to get at the nuts using a universal joint on a breaker bar.

 

[southofvictor]

Here’s a pic of our mast plate. You can see there is some but not much room to run a breaker bar through. We have two bolts in each of the two compartments covered by the plate.

Good luck figuring it out Ralph! We’re thinking of you. Let us know what more if anything we could do to help.

 

[u079721]

Here’s a pic of our mast plate. You can see there is some but not much room to run a breaker bar through. We have two bolts in each of the two compartments covered by the plate.

Good luck figuring it out Ralph! We’re thinking of you. Let us know what more if anything we could do to help.

That looks to be just what I had too, and there sure isn't much room to work there. By the way, shouldn't there be a coin stuck there under the mast? On mine just for fun I glued an actual silver silver dollar coin (which I got from work whenever I signed over a patent) to the mast step. I've always wondered if the new owner of Rag Doll ever found it, and what he thought of it!

 

[Loren Beach]

On mine just for fun I glued an actual silver silver dollar coin (which I got from work whenever I signed over a patent) to the mast step. I've always wondered if the new owner of Rag Doll ever found it, and what he thought of it!

Way Cool, Steve! Out there in the future someone may notice the two SusanBAnthony dollars I glued under our mast step casting just before we stepped the spar after our re-fit in 2021. (An actual silver dollar was beyond our budget at that point!)