Newbie looking at E32-3 cutter rig

[JohnW]

I noticed this E32-3 for sale at the local marina. https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1986-ericson-32--3-cutter-9024354/
It's listed as a cutter, but I thought E32-3s are sloops.

I made an appointment to take a look at the boat this weekend. Is there anything in particular I should lookout for on a cutter rigged E32-3? I a newbie, I'll mostly do a cursory look to see how well the previous owner took care of the boat before deciding on a hiring a surveyor to further investigate the boat.

I am very new, having just completed Small Boat Sailing on Capri 16 at City of Ventura's Leo Robbin Community Sailing Center, their prerequisite course for ASA101. Though the city has been slow in responding to inquiries on ASA 101 class schedule. I thought of just getting a Catalina 30 since they're so ubiquitous, but Christian Williams's sailing videos introduced me to Ericson, and this this website/community made me a believer Though in the back of my mind, I do wonder if getting a boat at this stage is a bit premature.

I do want to cross oceans, but realistically I know for at least the next year or two or more I'll mostly be coastal sailing, while prepping and getting to know the boat. Once I can make to Hawaii and back, then perhaps it's time for a bigger boat.

 

[bgary]

anything in particular I should lookout for on a cutter rigged E32-3?

That's the first 32-3 I've seen rigged with an inner forestay, and I don't remember hearing that was a factory option, so it might well be an "add" from a prior owner. I'd take a hard look at each end to see how well they're attaced. In particular, I'd be interested in seeing how (or if) the lower end is reinforced, I didn't see a tie-rod in the photos of the v-berth that would carry the load down to the "grid", and not sure that area of the deck is designed to take a lot of upward load. Don't know.

Plus, IIRC, that section of the deck is balsa-cored, so you'd want to make sure there's been no water ingress there.

Bruce

 

[william.haas]

A quick look at the photos reveals many oddities with this specimen... I would be curious to hear (read) what you learn.

 

[JohnW]

There's an earlier thread on adding an inner forestay to an E32-3 where the bulkhead was used to transfer the load, but the owner also mentioned that the forward bulkhead was significantly reinforced. I don't know if that is the case with this boats. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...-removable-inner-forestay-on-an-e-32-3.17311/

What other oddities have you guys spotted that I should pay attention to?

 

[william.haas]

There's an earlier thread on adding an inner forestay to an E32-3 where the bulkhead was used to transfer the load, but the owner also mentioned that the forward bulkhead was significantly reinforced. I don't know if that is the case with this boats. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...-removable-inner-forestay-on-an-e-32-3.17311/

What other oddities have you guys spotted that I should pay attention to?

Just a few items I noted (in addition to the cutter rig bulkhead question) while quickly scanning during a conference call when I needed a distraction:

- Take a hard look at how the DC battery charger is installed
- Review DC power systems/draws - I caught a few (possibly) extension cords with splitters on them
- Interior compass is mounted very close to the autopilot compass
- Engine hoses all look original
- Visible drain/scupper hoses look original
- Forward hatches might be newer
- Why one needs two televisions on a 32 foot yacht is a curiosity
- That VHF radio might be as old as me
- Is that a port hole mirror?
- What is the purpose of the side canvas in the cockpit - I have actually never seen that
- This is all very blue

There's my stream of consciousness for what it is worth (or not worth).

 

[Christian Williams]

Looks pretty good to my eye.

You'd have to appreciate the custom cove stripe and baby blue non-skid, which some people may.

Windlass is an add-on and check its utility and installation.

They're wonderful boats. Some things to look at are the cabin veneer around the ports, which can suffer water damage. The upholstery, which is expensive to replace. Any high-water evidence on the bulkheads, revealing sole submerged (which shouldn;t happen).

Mainsail and genoa, if need to be replaced, somewhere around 5K.

At a glance looks well maintained, with lots of protective canvas (those are weather cloths, I believe in them too). Engine has been spray-painted by somebody in a hurry. Price is low for SoCal.

That staysail stay is unnecessary and can be removed (immediately). The boat sails well in 30 knots under jib alone.

 

[Dave G.]

It looks to be a very nice specimen indeed. Not sure about the staysail need and I too would decommission it. The original design and sail plan was(is) pretty darn good and that extra sail is also more work and expense. IMHO of course...

 

[Christian Williams]

General note: whoever buys that boat will need to change to the new-style Universal M25 alternator bracket, which goes under the alternator, like this:

 

[JohnW]

This alternator bracket, alternator selection, DC circuit is a deep deep rabbit hole, with many branching blogs and references. I've changed car alternators before and I've never gave it much thought. DIY sailboat maintenance seems much more free form with way more possibilities to mess up/improve.

There are a few E32-200 listings in SoCal with similar pricing, some with better color palates. However, I think the E32-3 layout seems more spacious and I like the quarter berth/nav desk arrangement. I guess it's time to become better acquainted with my sewing machings again, and maybe a Sailrite upgrade.

Thanks everyone for your valueable suggestions and comments.

 

[Bolo]

The owner sure likes the color blue and that’s a lot of canvas on that boat. That said, as an owner of a E32-3 (1987), I’d get rid of that inner forestay. No need for it IMO. I store our inflated dingy on that deck area when I don’t want to toe it or when I leave the boat at our home port. The boat does appear to be in decent shape although it does have some interesting design choices, like that boot stripe. Yes, 2 TV screens? I use to have a much smaller on in the same place as that one in the salon but removed that years ago when my “first mate” and I started watching our own programming separately on our iPads. (I’m not a big fan of shopping channels or “girl flicks”). I think the asking price is reasonable but no offers should be made until a surveyor looks it over and a sea trial is done but you already know that, right?

As for the cushions and Sailrite, I’m in the middle of replacing my cushions using a brand new Sailrite machine and I never sewed before. You can see part one on my YouTube channel. It’s been a challenging but enjoyable project and it not done quite yet. Take a look, you might learn something.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Hi John,

Looking at this boat with your goals in mind, the first thing that comes to mind is electronics. There is an empty chartplotter mount at the helm. What’s it got? As noted, the radio is old. The speedo and depth are original and looks like depth doesn’t even work. You’ll likely want AIS for trans-ocean. If you intend to single-hand, you might want a more robust autohelm. Will you want radar? You’re looking at $5K-$20K+ for that stuff. Rigging should be rock solid for big water. Other considerations for a blue water boat abound and there are people here far better qualified than me to advise you. In addition to the always excellent @Christian Williams check out @goldenstate ’s blog.

Thinking about all this work, coupled with your admitted beginner status, I might suggest the other approach that you’ve hinted at. Buy a smaller boat, the cheapest you can get that will serve you for a year. Sail it as much as you can, learn, do some simple repairs. Go to overnight destinations often. Try to spend as little money as possible. Then sell it and buy a bigger boat based on the knowledge acquired. Also, try to get on a regular-Joe racing team. An able body and reliable attendance make up for lack of experience. Your knowledge of sail trim and boat handling will compound. This approach might seem like a delay of your plans, but on your second boat you’ll be more efficient with time and make fewer costly missteps.

The most important asset you will take on a long trip is your experience. It’s always exciting when I hear about people who are new to sailing and enthusiastic about it. But I cringe when I hear about people who are new to sailing, buy a boat, and strike out across oceans. Of course, the boat and gear is very important, but secondary.

A formula I’ve mentioned before is that every $1000 you put into a boat immediately becomes worth about $250 in resale value. It’s hack math, but illustrative. When I put money in, I’d want to know it’s my long-term boat. The flip side is you can buy a boat with some well executed improvements and get the updates at a discount. Hold out for one of those.

I’m not trying to shoo you away from Ericson ownership or our ‘fellowship’. Most people here will be happy to answer technical questions about another brand if they think their experience applicable. There is a wealth of information already stored. Look for the Master Thread list. All that said, it might make the most sense for you to get this boat and make it your own. So, I’m just another voice in the peanut gallery.


Good luck!
Jeff

 

[JohnW]

This boat is quite popular. Right after our appointment, the broker had another set of people waiting to see the boat.

The boat looked like how it was presented online. From what I can tell, the inner forestay is fastened onto the deck backed up by a ~6"x8" metal plate. The headliner was pretty tight, didn't unzip all the way, and I didn't want to risk damage by forcing it. Though the consensus is to remove the inner forestay. One of the port light corners has signs of past water damage. All the port lights and deck hatches exhibit quite a bit of crazing. Extra batteries under the port settee with unsupported busbar. The boat was pretty full of stuff. All the drawers and underseat storage areas we checked were full. Even the hanging locker was filled to the top. The mainsail will need lazy jacks and new running rigging setup.

Despite the general good condition of the boat, my mental todo list keeps getting longer and longer with no end in sight. Luckily I look forward to the various diy projects as a way to personalize and better know the boat. I may reqret this at a later time.

Besides the alternator bracket, another must fix item is the standing rigging. The broker mentioned that the standing rigging is most likely still the original so will need to be replaced with an estimate cost of ~$5k. Is that about right for current LA area rate? From searching the forum, the dollar amount ranges from a few K to 10K.

I explored other boats, but factoring in the cost of slip fee, maintenance, and diy time, I feel that a smaller boat at half the price may not save that much over 3~5 years. Keeping in mind the at most 25% recovery rate for every dollar invested, I will be very open to buying used but functional and still relevant electronics.

I was at the yacht racing 101 seminar before the yacht broker appointment (same marina). Buccaneer Yacht Club is very friendly to new sailor and I hope to sign up to help crew some of their race practices. I figure if I have a boat, I can pratice what I've learn at my own leasurely pace with a couple friends who are also into sailing.

 

[Christian Williams]

Your approach seems right to me. Given a positive survey, the issues are manageable over time.

Many sailboats have original rigging. A rigging inspection is important to check the connecters and discover any immediate concerns. Sailing plans can take old rigging into account. Everybody has a budget,

You can fix the crazed hatches and much else yourself, and it makes you knowledgeable about the boat and therefore confident.

One thing that's hard to discuss and nobody's business but your own: you need time and money to successfully own an Ericson, or any other boat of the era. You need to live near the boat, have a flexible job and family, and eventually a large collection of gear and tools. The reality is an old boat is an ongoing project, and they are hard to sell if the plan goes south.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

re: standing rigging
In 21-22 we had the all original rigging on our 1986 E35-3 replaced, including a new furler. One rigger outright refused to do the job without replacing the furler. The one we went with strongly encouraged us to replace it saying that if we didn't, surely in a couple years we'd be calling him to change out the old furler. These are New England numbers of several years ago, but it was about $7,800, installed. Of that, about $3,000 was the new furler. That does not include unstepping and restepping the mast.

 

[bgary]

The reality is an old boat is an ongoing project

The reality is ANY boat is an ongoing project.

Or, as my dock-neighbor (with the 25-years-younger boat) says... "a boat is a floating to-do list"

To me, that's part of the fun. Just puttering on the boat is my happy place.

B

 

[windblown]

Is there anything in particular I should lookout for on a cutter rigged E32-3?

Our 32-3 has an inner forestay, ordered by the original owner and installed (by Ericson?) before commissioning. It was, apparently, an option. The staysail that came with the boat when we purchased it was probably the original. It’s in fine condition (hardly ever used in three + decades). We’ve kept the inner forestay, though I’m not sure why. We certainly don’t need the extra sail area! However, I can imagine situations when we might prefer the staysail to a partially furled jib. We haven‘t been caught in one of those situations, yet.
In light air, the foresail tends to get caught on the inner forestay when we’re coming about, so we often stow it with a bridle like this:
https://theriggingco.com/2014/07/09/how-to-stow-your-inner-fore-stay/
With a furler on the inner stay, stowing it away isn’t feasible. I’d be interested to hear how the current owner uses the cutter rig.

I am very new, having just completed Small Boat Sailing on Capri 16 at City of Ventura's Leo Robbin Community Sailing Center, their prerequisite course for ASA101. Though the city has been slow in responding to inquiries on ASA 101 class schedule. I thought of just getting a Catalina 30 since they're so ubiquitous, but Christian Williams's sailing videos introduced me to Ericson, and this this website/community made me a believer Though in the back of my mind, I do wonder if getting a boat at this stage is a bit premature.

In regard to being a newbie, we have found our Ericson 32-3 to be a great starter boat, and a great forever boat. I grew up on power boats, so I had good boat sense, but I had never been at the helm of a sailboat over 18’. My wife’s experience was with sunfish, 60 years ago.
The 32-3 easily gets to hull speed in pretty light air, and a nervous skipper can keep her flat and still have a great ride and look like they know something. On the other hand, she is stable, responsive, and very sea worthy, so as one’s skills and confidence grow, she responds to the challenge.
This forum makes it possible to learn about and tackle the skills and chores of maintaining boats of this era, and in the end, that kind of intimate knowledge of a boat and it’s equipment is what really makes long passages possible.

 

[peaman]

Our 32-3 has an inner forestay, ordered by the original owner and installed (by Ericson?) before commissioning. It was, apparently, an option.

Do you have running back stays, or fittings for them? Did you ever consider swapping your head sail for a yankee, for a proper cutter rig?

 

[Loren Beach]

About the added inner stay - I am certainly no expert but have visited aboard a number of boats with an inner stay and all tied the lower tang to an internal bulkhead or to an inner wire or rod stay that went down to a strong point under the forepeak. Some, that did not regularly use that sail, did have the inner "bracing stay" attached by a snap shackle so that the forepeak was open for comfortable sleeping at anchor or at the dock. The upper attachment will need runners, also, to keep the mast in column.
I just do not think that an actual NA designed that stay conversion on that boat. While an Ericson is stronger than the average boat, that is a force the rig was not designed for by Mr King.

This opinion valued at 2 cents, altho discounts are regularly offered.....

 

[windblown]

Do you have running back stays, or fittings for them? Did you ever consider swapping your head sail for a yankee, for a proper cutter rig?

No running back stays, just an hydraulic back stay.

 

[Pete the Cat]

No running back stays, just an hydraulic back stay.

Be very careful with the hydraulic backstay. They can cause damage. Especially with a staysail and no running backs?!). I concur with others that the staysail should go--it may have already beat the heck out of your jenny. I just do not see the point of them--it needs a properly secured headstay at the stem if you keep it and maybe running backs---which are a real PIA to sail with. You are going to need all new instrumentation and I would actually look at the sails as Christian mentioned--if they are not good for the next season or two.....it is a major cost of the boat. . The engine needs the alternator mod or you could be in big trouble and this might tell you the PO did not maintain the raw cooling system which can get expensive. This looks like a boat that has not actually seen much sailing and the cushions appear in good shape which can be a huge expense in any new boat.
As someone mentioned there are others for sale in SoCal that might be better equipped (instrumentation, sails, and other big ticket items). Paying $4 or $5 K more (or much less for this boat) might be a better overall deal with more attention to the issues folks have mentioned. I am not big on the reliability of our current crop of surveyors--but I would not ignore them either. I am not sure of the market, but price seems high to me if it needs sails and operating instruments and rigging attention (riggers are expensive and dropping the mast is too--probably not a DIY project). Impressions that are worth what you paid for them.