Late night fun with bilge pumps - trying to diagnose problem

[Prairie Schooner]

Brian, we're having a similar problem. Last fall I put a new Whale Gusher pump in the cockpit bulkhead where the old one had been. (On the old one the bracket securing the bellows was broken and the replacement part was almost as much as a new pump.) Before installing the new pump, I checked it with a bucket of water and confirmed that it worked. Our manual pump hose is dedicated with no connections or T's. Before I put the new pump in I blew in the hose to be sure I had a clear path. Yes. Then I plugged one end and blew in it to check for leaks. No. But once installed, when there was water in the bilge it would not pull. I haven't had time to troubleshoot further. Sorry, no help, but some commiseration.

Follow up: I removed the pump. It's working fine but, I'm embarrassed to say, I had hooked the in and out hoses to the wrong ports of the pump. My attempts to use it just blew bubbles in the bilge. (Bubbles In The Bilge would be a good name for an amateur maritime folk-rock band, btw.) Rerouting the hoses would have been a royal pain and introduced problematic loops, but I discovered that the bellows assembly can be rotated. That section is beautifully symmetrical so the mounting nuts will still line up with the holes in the cockpit side. Even though the old original hose seemed airtight, I decided to replace it as long as I still have the sole out.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[bsangs]

Follow up: I removed the pump. It's working fine but, I'm embarrassed to say, I had hooked the in and out hoses to the wrong ports of the pump. My attempts to use it just blew bubbles in the bilge. (Bubbles In The Bilge would be a good name for an amateur maritime folk-rock band, btw.) Rerouting the hoses would have been a royal pain and introduced problematic loops, but I discovered that the bellows assembly can be rotated. That section is beautifully symmetrical so the mounting nuts will still line up with the holes in the cockpit side. Even though the old original hose seemed airtight, I decided to replace it as long as I still have the sole out.
View attachment 49829
Cheers,
Jeff

Well done. You're a better man than I am Jeff. I gave up and purchased a gigantic manual bilge pump from Beckon Marine that I hope to never use.

 

[Nick J]

Awesome work Jeff! Can you take some pics of the pump and hose install? I wanted to use the pump you chose because it isn't susceptible to the aluminum corrosion that plagues the original units, but I didn't think the mounting bolts matched up. Sounds like you solved that problem and ended up with the best solution. This thread also reminds me that I never finished my install and I left the pickup hose coiled under the cabin sole not attached to a strum box!

 

[southofvictor]

Pretty nice to be able to rotate it and swap the in and out if you want to. Can you still take that pump apart and rebuild it / replace the flapper valves like you can with the aluminum ones? Or is it all sealed inside the bellows?

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@bsangs - If me making a stupid mistake and finally figuring it out a year later qualifies me, you might be selling yourself short. But thanks.

@Nick J - I will, Nick. Fortunately, the bolt pattern matches what was in there before.

@southofvictor - I think it is rebuildable. I was thinking about rebuilding the old one but the kit was about 75% (IIRC) of what a whole new pump cost so we just went with new. I loathe the concept of disposable parts, but it just didn't make sense to repair it. Naturally, I haven't been able to bring myself to throw the old one out yet.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Awesome work Jeff! Can you take some pics of the pump and hose install? I wanted to use the pump you chose because it isn't susceptible to the aluminum corrosion that plagues the original units, but I didn't think the mounting bolts matched up. Sounds like you solved that problem and ended up with the best solution. This thread also reminds me that I never finished my install and I left the pickup hose coiled under the cabin sole not attached to a strum box!

Hi Nick,
I'm still in a full blown ADD flurry of work, bouncing between projects, but this shows some of what we're working with. The all black pump is the old one. It's a 1:1 swap.



If you need to drill new holes, that fascia would cover some of it. One nice touch which I really appreciate is the nuts for the mounting screws are locked into the frame so I don't have snake an arm back there to hold them in place while seating the screws. However, as the fascia flexes to match the slight curve of the wall, past a certain point the door doesn't close well. +1 -1

Is there more you'd like to see?

(I just realized how rusty that cut-off knob mount is. Sigh.)

 

[Kenneth K]

I replaced my old, aluminum Whale gusher in April with a new plastic one. The holes don't line up. Like Jeff said, the trim piece covers the 4 upper holes, but the mis-match in the lower holes remain visible.

 

[Christian Williams]

My cheat on leftover holes is just to put in a bolt.

Looks extremely important but does nothing at all.

..Like some people you know.

 

[bsangs]

My cheat on leftover holes is just to put in a bolt.

Looks extremely important but does nothing at all.

..Like some people you know.

I think one of my two previous owners must have taken your approach. There are several bolts that I have no idea what purpose they once served.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@Nick J
Hi Nick,
I finished the (re)installation on the Gusher pump. I paid more attention to the fit and trimmed a bit off the alternate base so it didn't jam against the TAFG. If you have any questions, ask away.
Jeff

 

[Nick J]

Looks great Jeff. I had to do the same on mine. I love those hose clamp covers. I have bags of them all over the place, but somehow still forget where I put them when I need one. The 90 to direct the hose directly down is a nice touch too. Gives a few more inches of usable space in the locker.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Looks great Jeff. I had to do the same on mine. I love those hose clamp covers. I have bags of them all over the place, but somehow still forget where I put them when I need one. The 90 to direct the hose directly down is a nice touch too. Gives a few more inches of usable space in the locker.

I salvaged the elbow from the original pump. I contemplated leaving it out for a more fair run. In the end I decided the flow loss would be small and opted for the extra bit of storage.

 

[Loren Beach]

https://defender.com/en_us/whale-pump-hose-adapter-elbow?utm_id=146308134413&utm_campaign=19735474070&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid&utm_content=649561297602&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3rDnrq6fhgMV8iCtBh05zwjkEAQYASABEgKS5vD_BwE#493=5661

These are invaluable for connecting up Whale pumps in tight spaces (Like... there are any other kind of spaces on a boat... )

 

[Kenneth K]

Thanks Loren. I was just about to ping Jeff to ask him where he got his.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . . I love those hose clamp covers. I have bags of them all over the place, but somehow still forget where I put them when I need one. . . .

Yes!! The boat was such a mess during off-season work that I couldn't find mine and I bought some more. Just found the original stash yesterday.

 

[Robid]

Diaphragm pumps are considered positive displacement pumps. They are the preferred pumps for stripping tanks, bilges, etc because they develop suction on the strainer side regardless if the suction has water in it or not as long as that suction is maintained. Wilden Double Diaphram pumps are standard ship emergency gear. These pumps work until something breaks the vacuum. They allow stripping because in a rolling sea you might lose it for a while and then regain it once the inlet screen is covered. Impeller based pumps still have displacement pump qualities but compared to the diaphragm pump have more areas where they can fail...each blade seal, shaft seal, and end clearances.

Whenever you have two discharges to one overboard, both systems rely on the discharge check valve ability of the idle system.

 

[stephenbonifield]

I purchased an E27 a few months ago and had a problem w the auto bilge pump and hose. Easily fixed. This led me to try the manual whale gusher which does not work. My manual and auto lines are separate. I looked up the whale gusher and found a rebuild kit for $79 but noticed the reviews were not good at all. Many complaints about about them not working even after rebuilding- I’m not talking about just a few negative comments- but an alarming amount. Any comments on this? I know a lot of the issues are user-error but I would love some feedback here as I would prefer to rebuild and not replace. Thank you

 

[Frank Langer]

The rebuild kits include the required parts, but often the corrosion inside makes it almost impossible to get a good seal, if you can even get the bolts out to replace those parts.
I did not have success, though others might.
Frank

 

[Kenneth K]

Many complaints about about them not working even after rebuilding...

For saltwater boats, the main complaint is that the aluminum body of the pump itself corrodes, so replacing the internal rubber components is only a short-term fix. Better to replace the old pump with the plastic model pump.

 

[Loren Beach]

https://defender.com/en_us/whale-mk5-universal-manual-bilge-waste-pump-bp0510

This appears to be the plastic "Henderson Mk 5" pump that Whale bought the rights to sell, a number of years ago. I put one in our head compartment to replace the corroded-out Whale Gusher pump. It does use a slightly different bolt pattern, be aware.
Interesting that it's still for sale under the original brand name on at least one UK chandler site.
If starting over, again, and in a salt water environment, I would probably replace the vintage Whale Gusher (aluminum body) cockpit pump with one of these.