Chains & more chains

[Eric Gordon]

I’m currently going through the boat to eliminate anything on her that I don’t need/want. I started today forward at the v-berth and chain locker. That was after I took 2-hours to remove a seawater exhaust tube from the Yanmar elbow and waiting for the part for it to be replaced…but, I digress.

So, I was kindve taken aback by the amount of chain in the forward compartment. I estimate at least 300ft (maybe more), plus some rode, but I haven't measured it yet (the chain or the rode), because here in Dana Point, I have been moved to a brand spanking new slip, and we’re not supposed to put dirty stuff on the docks (even though the gulls and seals do).

Anyway I’m sure I have to schlep it all back to the house for evaluation and cleaning and measuring.

So, I’ve read a bunch of posts here about chain length, but I still can’t wrap my old brain around the actual length I need. I have only done day sailing along the socal coastline (Marina del Rey, Balboa, Dana Point)not having used the anchor in the six years I’ve sailed, and if I were going to go somewhere that required an anchor, I’m not sure I would feel comfy doing it in 100 ft of water or more.

The question is, wouldn’t 50 or 100 feet be enough if I was going to anchor in Catalina (assuming I couldn't get a mooring), or Oceanside, MRD, San Diego etc..??

See pix for the forward chain mess…half was in the vberth behind a piece of wood panel, the remainder down below, in the forward area of the vberth. I was able to coax it all below. There are links that are rusted.

 

[Frank Langer]

Wow, that would be a huge amount of weight in your E27, and would definitely affect performance in my opinion. I'm not familiar with your area, but here on the BC coast I can usually find anchorage (which I do alot as I prefer it to marina docks) in about 30 to 45 feet depth. For that on our E30+ I have 25 feet of 5/16" chain and 225 feet if half inch line. This has worked well for me for the 16 years I've sailed here, in winds to 30 knots. Most sailors would say you need at least the chain length equal to the length of the boat, and more is obviously a bit more secure, but one also has to be able to raise chain and anchor even in rough conditions. For me at my age 25 feet plus a 22 lb Bruce anchor is plenty.
Frank

 

[Eric Gordon]

I was thinking along those lines. I probably have a similar amount of chain in the stern locker….but one at a time….

So I was thinking about keeping 40-feet of chain and a couple hundred of half-inch line.

And BTW, I forget if it was you or someone else writing on the forum about the "rocking horse,” effect. I believe the weight of that chain HAS impacted the stability of the boat forward and I am anxious to take it out for a sail without all that weight.

Tks

Eric

 

[Loren Beach]

We do not anchor out nearly as often as Frank, but are comfortable (in protected coves with decent sand bottom) with a Danforth anchor, 30 feet of chain, and 250 feet of nylon rode. This all fits, barely, in our boat's bow anchor locker.
The OP's boat, IMHO, came with an amazing amount of chain, and if all of it seems to be carried forward, in the wrong place....
But, every sailing area will have differing requirements for ground tackle, so take my opinion with a pinch of... sea salt.

Anchoring music for Eric's Ericson?

 

[Eric Gordon]

We do not anchor out nearly as often as Frank, but are comfortable (in protected coves with decent sand bottom) with a Danforth anchor, 30 feet of chain, and 250 feet of nylon rode. This all fits, barely, in our boat's bow anchor locker.
The OP's boat, IMHO, came with an amazing amount of chain, and if all of it seems to be carried forward, in the wrong place....
But, every sailing area will have differing requirements for ground tackle, so take my opinion with a pinch of... sea salt.

Anchoring music for Eric's Ericson?

OK, I am a huge Beatles fan….and I haven’t heard that song, since The Real Don Steele played it on 93 KHJ, Los Angeles. Christian might be one of the few who actually remembers that time besides me. In any case, yeah, I just don’t feel I need hundreds of pounds of chain at this point. Thanks for the responses . ET

 

[Christian Williams]

In ten years here I think I've anchored twice. Never at Two Harbors on Catalina, where the area is restricted and the holding ground poor.

If the Channel Islands tempt, good gear is needed and a stern anchor, too. But without a windlass that has little appeal.

Otherwise, two boat-lengths of chain and a couple of hundred feet of Nylon. For me, it's pretty much emergency only.

 

[Frank Langer]

In ten years here I think I've anchored twice. Never at Two Harbors on Catalina, where the area is restricted and the holding ground poor.

If the Channel Islands tempt, good gear is needed and a stern anchor, too. But without a windlass that has little appeal.

Otherwise, two boat-lengths of chain and a couple of hundred feet of Nylon. For me, it's pretty much emergency only.

Christian & Others,
While I don't know your area, here on the BC coast we have lovely anchorages--small bays surrounded by rock cliffs, tall evergreen trees, good holding in mud or sand. We are often the only boat here, swinging gently on our anchor, watching the curious seals come ever closer to our boat to inspect or enjoy the quiet music we play sometimes, listening to the eagles in the trees or the occasional loon call. In the summer a nice swim in the ocean is refreshing and allows me to check the propeller, cutless bearing, clean the hull and get some easy exercise. Sunsets can be amazing.
I can't imagine not anchoring, though my wife and I do go to marinas when winds of 25 knots are forecast, or if we want to have a nice dinner out at their restaurant.
My wife was initially concerned about anchoring, but has since come to love it as much as I do. While it may not be for everyone, it's worth giving it a try to ensure you aren't missing out on a wonderful experience. We anchor out on average over 40 nights per year.
Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

Very cool. The issue here is deep water, few bays, essentially no place to go. The upside is superb weather, pleasant breezes and lovely afternoon sailing.

I have not lived anywhere it is possible to have limited experience and sail so successfully. No shoals, no rocks, no currents, no inlets, no bridges, and the tidal range is a couple of feet. No hurricanes, no sweltering summer heat, hardly a winter at all, and crystal Pacific deep ocean water.

Anchoring just isn't part of it on this section of the coast, nor any of the skills anchoring requires. I have gotten used to not missing it, or the hassle.

 

[bsangs]

Fifty feet of chain, 250 feet of 8-plait rode for us. Fits nicely in the anchor locker. I love the 8-plait since it doesn't tend to harden like three strand. Much gentler on hands and easily runs through the windlass. (We have 35 feet of chain and 150 feet of 8-plait for the backup/emergency anchor.) But, like Christian, we don't do a lot of anchoring.

 

[Eric Gordon]

Very cool. The issue here is deep water, few bays, essentially no place to go. The upside is superb weather, pleasant breezes and lovely afternoon sailing.

I have not lived anywhere it is possible to have limited experience and sail so successfully. No shoals, no rocks, no currents, no inlets, no bridges, and the tidal range is a couple of feet. No hurricanes, no sweltering summer heat, hardly a winter at all, and crystal Pacific deep ocean water.

Anchoring just isn't part of it on this section of the coast, nor any of the skills anchoring requires. I have gotten used to not missing it, or the hassle.

And I thought I wasn't being a good sailor for thinking “why the heck do I need this hassle?”

 

[Pete the Cat]

I think there is a lot of sensible advice here. It comes down to where you cruise, your boat size and weight, and what mechanisms you use for retrieval. I have about 40' of chain on a 200' rode (and a backup of approximately the same in the lazerette with a second anchor) for my Ericson 32 (no windlass) here in SF Bay. Works great in the mud that is everywhere you would want to anchor. Retrieval is simple. With my Tartan 37 in Maine, I have a ridiculous 230' of chain spliced to another 150' of nylon that I somehow thought I might need in my cruising days through Central America. The Tartan is a much heavier boat and needs a much bigger and heavier anchoring system and a windlass to handle it, but I have rarely needed more than 130' of chain to feel safe anywhere in 32 years, and I will shorten everything when I get around to it. I like all chain in Maine because I am usually anchoring in rocky bottoms and chafe is a very real issue if you happen to wrap a rock--a common occurence. And the windlass makes handling chain fairly easy. I have always carried a full spare anchor and rode and deployed it once or twice when there was some kind of storm or threat of dragging. I have dragged twice: once when I attempted to set my gear on a sunken parking lot, and another when my anchor fouled in a plastic tarp. I have developed a belief that having a second anchor system ready to deploy is a better choice than relying the manufacturers' claims of holding power of one particular brand of anchor.

 

[AdventurousAnton]

I think there is a lot of sensible advice here. It comes down to where you cruise, your boat size and weight, and what mechanisms you use for retrieval. I have about 40' of chain on a 200' rode (and a backup of approximately the same in the lazerette with a second anchor) for my Ericson 32 (no windlass) here in SF Bay. Works great in the mud that is everywhere you would want to anchor. Retrieval is simple.

Ahoy, Pete...we're on Alameda and plan on weekending at Angel Island and other locations here in the Bay (China Beach is a favorite), but the discussion of what type/weight anchor (or two) is best for our location from life-long sailors I know point toward Mantus-style anchors fore and aft. As for weight (ours is an E30+), we've heard 17-25 pounds is good, with most favoring the 25 lbs size.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Pete the Cat]

Ahoy, Pete...we're on Alameda and plan on weekending at Angel Island and other locations here in the Bay (China Beach is a favorite), but the discussion of what type/weight anchor (or two) is best for our location from life-long sailors I know point toward Mantus-style anchors fore and aft. As for weight (ours is an E30+), we've heard 17-25 pounds is good, with most favoring the 25 lbs size.

Thoughts? Thanks!

You won't need much in SF Bay. Anything above a 17S Danforth (my main anchor for my 32 in SF Bay) will do fine. SF Bay is all mud everywhere. A bit of grass in the Delta and that is a different thing. Reset can be an issue if you anchor in one of the coves around Angell Island where there is swirling current that reverses and causes a reset. I would stick to the two anchorages on the East side of the island in about 12 to 20 ft. China Camp is about 8 ft where you can anchor and the current is sort of wimpy and probably could not make you reset. I carry other anchors, but I like those without roll bars in sticky mud as they seem to have a problem with reset. Saw a guy sawing the roll bar off a Rocna once who was not happy. Made sense. I am not an advocate for the "one size bigger" school of anchors--carry at least two complete sets of gear. If things get hairy I need to move to a safer spot (if there is one) or put down a second anchor. I do not support the idea of hunkering down and thinking/hoping your "next generation" anchor will hold. When you back down, that is your only promise of holding power--and it is temporary. Just my philosophy. Opinions and practices will vary.

 

[AdventurousAnton]

You won't need much in SF Bay. Anything above a 17S Danforth (my main anchor for my 32 in SF Bay) will do fine. SF Bay is all mud everywhere. A bit of grass in the Delta and that is a different thing. Reset can be an issue if you anchor in one of the coves around Angell Island where there is swirling current that reverses and causes a reset. I would stick to the two anchorages on the East side of the island in about 12 to 20 ft. China Camp is about 8 ft where you can anchor and the current is sort of wimpy and probably could not make you reset. I carry other anchors, but I like those without roll bars in sticky mud as they seem to have a problem with reset.

Considering you're on an Ericson not bigger than mine, this sounds like sage advice. I currently have a Danforth (16 lbs) that's older, but still serviceable up front, and no anchor in the aft lazarette. That will change with the addition of a new anchor/rode/chain. Our E30+ is also missing a windlass, and I like your setup of 40' of chain on a 200' rode up front and in back. That sounds like a good plan for Andiamo! moving forward. Time to hit Blue Pelican here on Alameda as a first pass on what they nmight have in good (used) condition. THANKS!

 

[Eric Gordon]

I just returned from the boat after spending the afternoon laboriously working to move what I now know to be 240 feet of chain. (see pix)
About little more than 1/3rd looks to be in good condition, the remainder has rust at various links. There was NO rode, just a length of rope attached to a bulkhead in the forward anchor storage “locker” underneath the v-berth. (see pix). I don’t think 1/2” plywood was going to withstand extreme strain from the chain, but I’m not putting it back in any case. I wonder if any of you think the rusty links are beyond being serviceable. (again, see pix)

 

[Eric Gordon]

I just returned from the boat after spending the afternoon laboriously working to move what I now know to be 240 feet of chain. (see pix)
About little more than 1/3rd looks to be in good condition, the remainder has rust at various links. There was NO rode, just a length of rope attached to a bulkhead in the forward anchor storage “locker” underneath the v-berth. (see pix). I don’t think 1/2” plywood was going to withstand extreme strain from the chain, but I’m not putting it back in any case. I wonder if any of you think the rusty links are beyond being serviceable. (again, see pix)

PS- The chain was so heavy, I had to unravel it into my trunk 12-inches at a time. The car handled much differently with the chain back there.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I'll be very interested in hearing how your boat handles with that removed.

 

[bigd14]

240 feet? Wow! My 30+ noticeably drops in the bow with 60 feet of chain and 200 feet of rode. Let’s have before and after pics!

 

[Eric Gordon]

I’m anticipating my next sail, sometime in the coming week. And, I’ll take some pics on how she sits in the water now. I think I will check the AFT Anchor to see how much is back there.

 

[Pete the Cat]

While a little surface rust is no problem (folks often seem to over react) the links you show are rotten and are a hazard. Seems like this chain has not been used much and you can possibly just chop off the rusty part and still have a 30 to 40 ft hunk of chain for your system. I would say 150' of rode on top of that would be plenty for your boat in any cove in SF Bay.. If you have chain over the side of your boat (no nylon rode showing) , you are going to want to have snubber with a chain hook--you will otherwise damage your chocks and have a lot of noise. Get the right sized chain hook and a thimble and make something out of 1/2" nylon--doing an eye splice. I am sure there is a Youtube video on how to do this. You will want about 20 feet on the snubber. Snubber takes the slack and chain droops in the water. Some folks like shorter lengths of chain because you then will have nylon line running through the chocks and do not need a snubber--that would be fine for most times on SF Bay, but others want more security of more chain for longer trips coastwise. Your choice. Blue Pelican has a huge assortment of anchors as lots of folks have been sold the need for new mondo "next generation", incredibly heavy anchors that they proudly display on the marina docks. If you are actually going out and anchoring, you probably want something that fits your actual situation and use.