NateHanson
Sustaining Member
You might save a couple thousand on your VAT if you fix it up AFTER importing it, right?
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Nate,
Spot on. That is my current plan. A broker in Falmouth UK who has just sold and E35-2 recommended that course of action. As it stands the shipping company, ebay receipt and transaction records from my account will confirm the purchase and leave me with a small (£500 odd) VAT bill to pay. Combined with the time restraints involved with refitting and sailing her back, this all adds up to shipping making more sense. Doesn't half bug me that we have to pay the government for spending already taxed money though, but I won't bang my head aganst that brick wall.
Nicki.
Spot on. That is my current plan. A broker in Falmouth UK who has just sold and E35-2 recommended that course of action. As it stands the shipping company, ebay receipt and transaction records from my account will confirm the purchase and leave me with a small (£500 odd) VAT bill to pay. Combined with the time restraints involved with refitting and sailing her back, this all adds up to shipping making more sense. Doesn't half bug me that we have to pay the government for spending already taxed money though, but I won't bang my head aganst that brick wall.
Nicki.
Title notes
Nicki,
I am no boat title expert, and live in a state (Oregon) that is a rather long ways from Florida...
But a quick perusal of their state's boating web site appears to show them as what we call a "full title" state. I believe that most states are, but certainly not all. Some states just use a Coast Guard registration system in lieu of.
Different states treat Federally Documented vessels differently, also.
http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/dmv/vslfacts.html#4
This FAQ seems to show that documented boats do not also need state registration. (Not relevant to your purchase, though)
So, if your purchase has a valid Florida title, that is a Very Good Thing. Titles for boats are kind of like titles for houses and automobiles here. Proof of ownership, something to pledge against a loan, and somewhat of a barrier to theft and attempts to falsely register it in some other locale.
Personal experience: In '83 we bought a 26 foot sailboat up in BC Canada, and "imported" it into the US, and Oregon, our state. It had no title, but did have a bill of sale from the first owner and current survey that also certified that the seller was in fact the owner. It took me several letters back and forth with the Oregon Marine Board to create a new boat title for it. They needed lots of reassurance that it was not in fact a stolen boat. I came to appreciate their efforts to try to reduce interstate (international?) theft. Mind you, they were nice about it, but serious...
Sidebar: in those olden days the inport duty on a foreign-built vessel was still in effect, although being phased out slowly. I had to write a $900. check to US Customs upon entry.
Cheers,
Loren in Portland, OR
Nicki,
I am no boat title expert, and live in a state (Oregon) that is a rather long ways from Florida...
But a quick perusal of their state's boating web site appears to show them as what we call a "full title" state. I believe that most states are, but certainly not all. Some states just use a Coast Guard registration system in lieu of.
Different states treat Federally Documented vessels differently, also.
http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/dmv/vslfacts.html#4
This FAQ seems to show that documented boats do not also need state registration. (Not relevant to your purchase, though)
So, if your purchase has a valid Florida title, that is a Very Good Thing. Titles for boats are kind of like titles for houses and automobiles here. Proof of ownership, something to pledge against a loan, and somewhat of a barrier to theft and attempts to falsely register it in some other locale.
Personal experience: In '83 we bought a 26 foot sailboat up in BC Canada, and "imported" it into the US, and Oregon, our state. It had no title, but did have a bill of sale from the first owner and current survey that also certified that the seller was in fact the owner. It took me several letters back and forth with the Oregon Marine Board to create a new boat title for it. They needed lots of reassurance that it was not in fact a stolen boat. I came to appreciate their efforts to try to reduce interstate (international?) theft. Mind you, they were nice about it, but serious...
Sidebar: in those olden days the inport duty on a foreign-built vessel was still in effect, although being phased out slowly. I had to write a $900. check to US Customs upon entry.
Cheers,
Loren in Portland, OR
Hi Loren,
Thanks very much for the info and the link. I'll check it out when I have a moment after the kids are in bed. Seems like it is a pretty similar thing to here. we usually sell on Bill of Sale, and then as an option we have Small Ships Register, which is just a form and a small cheque and then full Part 1 registration: the works.
FYI it looks pretty clear that I shall be bringing her home by ship as time is so short and a friend has just lent me the money to ship her. Shame to miss the journey, but hey that's how it goes. I hope to do the 2009 OSTAR to RI from Plymouth UK, time and wife permitting.
I'll post some pictures and first impressions as soon asI see her.
Regards,
Nicki
Thanks very much for the info and the link. I'll check it out when I have a moment after the kids are in bed. Seems like it is a pretty similar thing to here. we usually sell on Bill of Sale, and then as an option we have Small Ships Register, which is just a form and a small cheque and then full Part 1 registration: the works.
FYI it looks pretty clear that I shall be bringing her home by ship as time is so short and a friend has just lent me the money to ship her. Shame to miss the journey, but hey that's how it goes. I hope to do the 2009 OSTAR to RI from Plymouth UK, time and wife permitting.
I'll post some pictures and first impressions as soon asI see her.
Regards,
Nicki
Hi Nicki,
I believe the norm for Ericsons were balsa core on the decks and coach roof EXCEPT for where hardware e.g. cleats, traveler etc., are mounted will be plywood. I know on the Independence 31 this included the mast step, under winches, around chainplates (where they pass through the hull). Here's a picture of the deck layout on the Independence 31 and reinforced areas.
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I believe the norm for Ericsons were balsa core on the decks and coach roof EXCEPT for where hardware e.g. cleats, traveler etc., are mounted will be plywood. I know on the Independence 31 this included the mast step, under winches, around chainplates (where they pass through the hull). Here's a picture of the deck layout on the Independence 31 and reinforced areas.
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Attachments
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I31-deck.jpg
gareth harris
Sustaining Member
The areas of the 35-2 deck that I have ripped apart include the entire deck. It is all balsa core, with the following three exceptions:
Immediately forward of the cockpit cubby holes, and aft to the transom. The half inch plywood that you see as the base of the cubby hole is one big piece that is also the deck coring in that area (one of the design flaws I mentioned eariler, the water that sits in the cubby holes drains directly into the core).
Where the aft lower shrouds attach to the deck, the coring is plywood, about eighteen inches in all (two owners on this list, including me, have reported poor bonding in that area).
Under the mast, and for a foot or so around it, the coring is strips of plywood.
The tops of the cubby holes, where the main winches are mounted, is half inch plywood.
My original owners manual is in the Specs and Documents section here, but it does not tell you very much. As far as your other question about the line drawings, I am sure that the basic design will meet all regulations (exhaust may be a different story, but that can be modified). I have not seen any specific drawings of the boat, but no doubt the criteria can be met by paying the appropriate small fortune to the right kind of surveyor. Prior to the EEC becoming the EU, British legislation would give you far more rope to hang yourself with than many other countries, especially the US; I liked things that way.
Hi Gareth,
Thanks for that. The whole deck, what a lovely prospect.
The RCD is getting worse and worse by the minute as I go deeper into the implications of it. I think there is serious risk if it scuppering the whole deal whatever the condition of the boat, because the costs are becoming difficult to pin down and with a budget like mine, knowing how much it costs is absolutely key. I have an import surveyor looking deeply into it as we speak. He is concerned that I may be left with a boat soaking up loads of money parked in a commercial dock in Southampton, whilst I struggle to get the RCD documents. This is becoming a bit of a bummer. The surveyor, who is also a lawyer, will ring me tomorrow afternoon. We will be in the air by then, so if it has all gone tits-up, we will only know tomorrow night in Florida. Maybe a visit to Cape Canaveral? I agree with you whole-heartedly about the rubbish legislation going on now here. It can be hell. So stupid really when I can buy ANY boat in the EU built before 1998 and not be subject to RCD restrictions. We call the *******s Eurocrats. I'll let you know how it all goes, but I can't pretend it is looking all that good.
Cheers,
Nicki
Thanks for that. The whole deck, what a lovely prospect.
The RCD is getting worse and worse by the minute as I go deeper into the implications of it. I think there is serious risk if it scuppering the whole deal whatever the condition of the boat, because the costs are becoming difficult to pin down and with a budget like mine, knowing how much it costs is absolutely key. I have an import surveyor looking deeply into it as we speak. He is concerned that I may be left with a boat soaking up loads of money parked in a commercial dock in Southampton, whilst I struggle to get the RCD documents. This is becoming a bit of a bummer. The surveyor, who is also a lawyer, will ring me tomorrow afternoon. We will be in the air by then, so if it has all gone tits-up, we will only know tomorrow night in Florida. Maybe a visit to Cape Canaveral? I agree with you whole-heartedly about the rubbish legislation going on now here. It can be hell. So stupid really when I can buy ANY boat in the EU built before 1998 and not be subject to RCD restrictions. We call the *******s Eurocrats. I'll let you know how it all goes, but I can't pretend it is looking all that good.
Cheers,
Nicki
Ericson had a dealer in England when they were building these boats, and apparently a good number were sold over there. I think they went with a shorter mast though. Some years ago I read a review of one of the 35-2 by an english reviewer sailing in English waters. I might have it somewhere if you want it.
gareth harris
Sustaining Member
It would be criminal to go that far without seeing the space centre. Good time of year to visit as well, without too many crowds.
Let me know what happens, and if I can help. There was an Ericson 35 for sale in Spain a couple of years ago, so the paperwork may have been done for the basic design, but if there is no central directory that would not help at all. Twenty years ago, I am sure you could have just tied to a mooring after the last leg from Iceland, walked into the office and started the paperwork; now, as you say, it could lead to real problems.
Let me know what happens, and if I can help. There was an Ericson 35 for sale in Spain a couple of years ago, so the paperwork may have been done for the basic design, but if there is no central directory that would not help at all. Twenty years ago, I am sure you could have just tied to a mooring after the last leg from Iceland, walked into the office and started the paperwork; now, as you say, it could lead to real problems.
Transporting the new toy
Have you looked in to transporting home via one of the float on/off ships? I believe Coastwise is one of them. I know they transport boats all over the world, Nanaimo being their stop in the Pacific Northwest. Had a chance to go aboard and watch the whole operation...very slick. No cradle to build, mast to unstep etc. I got a quote a couple of years ago for fun to see what it would cost to get my 32-2 to Costa Rica...I believe it was around $6500 US. I'm sure they run from Florida across. I think they said there are 12 ships running all over the world! Good luck!
Have you looked in to transporting home via one of the float on/off ships? I believe Coastwise is one of them. I know they transport boats all over the world, Nanaimo being their stop in the Pacific Northwest. Had a chance to go aboard and watch the whole operation...very slick. No cradle to build, mast to unstep etc. I got a quote a couple of years ago for fun to see what it would cost to get my 32-2 to Costa Rica...I believe it was around $6500 US. I'm sure they run from Florida across. I think they said there are 12 ships running all over the world! Good luck!
Dear Everyone,
Well what an odd trip. I am just back (landed 1230 GMT 23 jan in London), and sitting here reviewing my time in Florida. Without going into the details of the trip with an old school friend, always a laugh, I can begin by saying that the deal unfortunately failed.
Arriving in Orlando on friday night at 2210, we set about finding a bar. Drank beers in Cocoa 'til 0200 and went to bed in our hire car in the bar car park.
Awoke 0930 'ish to lovely bright sun and warm wind. I had by this time decided not to buy the boat as a phone call from the UK had ratified the RCD problem. I met with the seller at Cape Canaveral Marina. I told hom straight away that I could not buy the boat, apologised and paid him $90 to cover his listing fees. We left amicably.
Some time later in the day I received a phone call from the seller. He made a strange offer; his dad was proposing that he could deliver the boat to me in England, removing the delivery costs and thus freeing up money for the importing costs. I was intrigued. The more so when he told me his dad proposed commencing delivery accross the north Atlantic in 'about 2 weeks'. Swallowing my surprise at the thought of an unprepared boat setting off in February, I thought I could consider a cash on delivery deal. I asked for some time to think and put the phone down. I rang him later and arranged to meet him in the morning.
Upon ringing him the next day, the deal started to turn sour. He opened by telling me that, in order to make sure he was not wasting his time when he could be working (this was sunday), he wanted $1000 non-refundable deposit, just to show me the boat. The balance, I assumed would be paid before my departure home, leaving him with a boat and $6000 and me a promise of delivery to the UK. Unfortunately we failed to aggree to this deal, being, as it was somewhat loose to say the least.
We spent the rest of our stay messing around having fun.
In conclusion, I hold up my hands as the person who dropped out of the deal, hence my meeting him, paying his costs and apologising to him. I am sorry that he was unhappy with his dealings with me. Having rung him prior to bidding, however, and arranging that I would bid on the basis that it may be the case that I could not buy, I feel clear of conscience. The other note which may be of interest to someone here, is that there is a very cheap E35-2 in Cocoa Fl. Corey, the seller, is off to Kentucky soon to weld railways and he is more than keen to sell. I offered to put his nimber out here if anyone cares to ring. I have NOT seen the boat so cannot comment on her. His number is 321-323-0507.
My thanks go to all the members of this forum who carry such a wealth of knowledge and are so willing to share it. I am sorry not to be joining the Ericson family and blame grotty European paper-generating nonsense for this not having worked.
Thanks again to everyone for your help, and I would be very interested to hear if anyone checks out this boat I travelled over 10000 miles to nearly see.
Regards,
Nicki
Well what an odd trip. I am just back (landed 1230 GMT 23 jan in London), and sitting here reviewing my time in Florida. Without going into the details of the trip with an old school friend, always a laugh, I can begin by saying that the deal unfortunately failed.
Arriving in Orlando on friday night at 2210, we set about finding a bar. Drank beers in Cocoa 'til 0200 and went to bed in our hire car in the bar car park.
Awoke 0930 'ish to lovely bright sun and warm wind. I had by this time decided not to buy the boat as a phone call from the UK had ratified the RCD problem. I met with the seller at Cape Canaveral Marina. I told hom straight away that I could not buy the boat, apologised and paid him $90 to cover his listing fees. We left amicably.
Some time later in the day I received a phone call from the seller. He made a strange offer; his dad was proposing that he could deliver the boat to me in England, removing the delivery costs and thus freeing up money for the importing costs. I was intrigued. The more so when he told me his dad proposed commencing delivery accross the north Atlantic in 'about 2 weeks'. Swallowing my surprise at the thought of an unprepared boat setting off in February, I thought I could consider a cash on delivery deal. I asked for some time to think and put the phone down. I rang him later and arranged to meet him in the morning.
Upon ringing him the next day, the deal started to turn sour. He opened by telling me that, in order to make sure he was not wasting his time when he could be working (this was sunday), he wanted $1000 non-refundable deposit, just to show me the boat. The balance, I assumed would be paid before my departure home, leaving him with a boat and $6000 and me a promise of delivery to the UK. Unfortunately we failed to aggree to this deal, being, as it was somewhat loose to say the least.
We spent the rest of our stay messing around having fun.
In conclusion, I hold up my hands as the person who dropped out of the deal, hence my meeting him, paying his costs and apologising to him. I am sorry that he was unhappy with his dealings with me. Having rung him prior to bidding, however, and arranging that I would bid on the basis that it may be the case that I could not buy, I feel clear of conscience. The other note which may be of interest to someone here, is that there is a very cheap E35-2 in Cocoa Fl. Corey, the seller, is off to Kentucky soon to weld railways and he is more than keen to sell. I offered to put his nimber out here if anyone cares to ring. I have NOT seen the boat so cannot comment on her. His number is 321-323-0507.
My thanks go to all the members of this forum who carry such a wealth of knowledge and are so willing to share it. I am sorry not to be joining the Ericson family and blame grotty European paper-generating nonsense for this not having worked.
Thanks again to everyone for your help, and I would be very interested to hear if anyone checks out this boat I travelled over 10000 miles to nearly see.
Regards,
Nicki
Huh - sounds like a very questionable deal to me - and I think you were best to avoid that boat and it's 'seller'.
Don't give up on Ericsons, however - they're still very fine boats and well worth considering (if you can work the numbers).
Best of luck to you!
//sse
Don't give up on Ericsons, however - they're still very fine boats and well worth considering (if you can work the numbers).
Best of luck to you!
//sse
Sean,
The deal was indeed dodgy with me having to come home to the UK and leave the boat there. I would, however, seriously consider, and look at the boat if I was in eastern US. She could be in good enough condition to represent a realistic prospect. Rest assured, I am in no way put off Ericsons and the E35-2 remains in my mind as a very good and competent looking boat. If I ever manage to talk my family into a year or so off cruising, an E35 would be high up my list along with an S&S 34, S&S Apache 37, Pearson 35 and other similar boats from that period. If sailing for a period of time there would be no problem with the importing thing as we would simply start in the US and sell the boat there at the end, thus circumventing the need to import her here. I will a keen eye on this site to keep up with everyone and everything Ericson. I am a fan.
Nicki
The deal was indeed dodgy with me having to come home to the UK and leave the boat there. I would, however, seriously consider, and look at the boat if I was in eastern US. She could be in good enough condition to represent a realistic prospect. Rest assured, I am in no way put off Ericsons and the E35-2 remains in my mind as a very good and competent looking boat. If I ever manage to talk my family into a year or so off cruising, an E35 would be high up my list along with an S&S 34, S&S Apache 37, Pearson 35 and other similar boats from that period. If sailing for a period of time there would be no problem with the importing thing as we would simply start in the US and sell the boat there at the end, thus circumventing the need to import her here. I will a keen eye on this site to keep up with everyone and everything Ericson. I am a fan.
Nicki
Hi,
Final, final bit of this saga.
The seller who I just helped to sell his boat by putting his number here has not only given me negatve feedback on ebay, but also opened an unpaid item dispute with them. Some people eh? Maybe one of you guys will cruise in for the kill and buy her REALLY cheaply.
Please rest assured that it is the attitude of this site and its members which has formed my impression of the States, not the other fella's doings, and I thank you all once again for your kind words and freely given knowledge.
Please be sure to call me up should you find yourself this side of the Atlantic.
Best regards,
Nicki
Final, final bit of this saga.
The seller who I just helped to sell his boat by putting his number here has not only given me negatve feedback on ebay, but also opened an unpaid item dispute with them. Some people eh? Maybe one of you guys will cruise in for the kill and buy her REALLY cheaply.
Please rest assured that it is the attitude of this site and its members which has formed my impression of the States, not the other fella's doings, and I thank you all once again for your kind words and freely given knowledge.
Please be sure to call me up should you find yourself this side of the Atlantic.
Best regards,
Nicki
Hi Nicki,
this guy is unbelievable. I'm not very familiar with the in's and out's of eBay, but seems to me that you should counter with a response that after flying across an ocean to see the boat, the guy wanted to charge you $1000 non-refundable to look at it. That should make it very clear to anyone looking at feedback that you're not the problem here, but that this seller is a piece of work, for lack of any other words that I can't type on this board.
Unfortunatly, there are jerks everywhere, and I am happy that you are not letting this one ruin your feelings about us Yankees, even though being in Florida, he'd fall under a "Southerner" label - they're good people to
this guy is unbelievable. I'm not very familiar with the in's and out's of eBay, but seems to me that you should counter with a response that after flying across an ocean to see the boat, the guy wanted to charge you $1000 non-refundable to look at it. That should make it very clear to anyone looking at feedback that you're not the problem here, but that this seller is a piece of work, for lack of any other words that I can't type on this board.
Unfortunatly, there are jerks everywhere, and I am happy that you are not letting this one ruin your feelings about us Yankees, even though being in Florida, he'd fall under a "Southerner" label - they're good people to
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gareth harris
Sustaining Member
Could you pass me the contact for your surveyor/lawyer who has been looking at this?
Thanks, Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
Thanks, Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972