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Abandoned Boats?

u079721

Contributing Partner
Check out this article on abandoned boats in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/business/01boats.html?em=&pagewanted=all

01boat.600.jpg




"Boats Too Costly to Keep Are Littering Coastlines"

They often sandpaper over the names and file off the registry numbers, doing their best to render the boats, and themselves, untraceable. Then they casually ditch the vessels in the middle of busy harbors, beach them at low tide on the banks of creeks or occasionally scuttle them outright.

The bad economy is creating a flotilla of forsaken boats. While there is no national census of abandoned boats, officials in coastal states are worried the problem will only grow worse as unemployment and financial stress continue to rise. Several states are even drafting laws against derelicts and say they are aggressively starting to pursue delinquent owners.

“Our waters have become dumping grounds,” said Maj. Paul R. Ouellette of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. “It’s got to the point where something has to be done.”

Derelict boats are environmental and navigational hazards, leaking toxins and posing obstacles for other craft, especially at night. Thieves plunder them for scrap metal. In a storm, these runabouts and sailboats, cruisers and houseboats can break free or break up, causing havoc.

Some of those disposing of their boats are in the same bind as overstretched homeowners: they face steep payments on an asset that is diminishing in value and decide not to continue. They either default on the debt or take bolder measures.

Marina and maritime officials around the country say they believe, however, that most of the abandoned vessels cluttering their waters are fully paid for. They are expensive-to-maintain toys that have lost their appeal.

The owners cannot sell them, because the secondhand market is overwhelmed. They cannot afford to spend hundreds of dollars a month mooring and maintaining them. And they do not have the thousands of dollars required to properly dispose of them.

When Brian A. Lewis of Seattle tried to sell his boat, Jubilee, no one would pay his asking price of $28,500. Mr. Lewis told the police that maintaining the boat caused “extreme anxiety,” which led him to him drill a two-inch hole in Jubilee’s hull last March.

The boat sank in Puget Sound, and Mr. Lewis told his insurance company it was an accident. His scheme came undone when the state, seeking to prevent environmental damage, raised Jubilee. Mr. Lewis pleaded guilty last week to insurance fraud.

While there are no reliable national statistics on boating fraud, Todd Schwede, an insurance investigator in San Diego, said the number of suspicious cases he was handling had roughly tripled in the last year, to around 70.

In many cases, he said, the boater is following this logic: “I am overinsured on this boat. If I make it go away so no one will find it, the insurance company will give me enough to cover the debt and I’ll make something on the deal as well.”

Lt. David Dipre, who coordinates Florida’s derelict vessel program, said the handful of owners he had managed to track down were guilty more of negligence than fraud. “They say, ‘I had a dream of sailing around the world, I just never got around to it.’ Then they have some bad times and they leave it to someone else to clean up the mess,” Lieutenant Dipre said.

Florida officials say they are moving more aggressively to track down owners and are also starting to unclog the local inlets, harbors, swamps and rivers. The state appropriated funds to remove 118 derelicts this summer, up from only a handful last year.

In South Carolina, four government investigators started canvassing the state’s waterways in January. They quickly identified 150 likely derelicts.

“There are a lot more than we thought there would be,” said Lt. Robert McCullough of the state Department of Natural Resources. “There were a few boats that have always been there, and now all of a sudden they’ve added up and added up.”

In January, it became illegal in South Carolina to abandon a boat on a public waterway. Violators can be fined $5,000 and jailed for 30 days.

“We never needed a law before,” said Gary Santos, a Mount Pleasant councilman.

Not that having one is necessarily proving much of a deterrent. Mr. Santos took a spin on a friend’s motorboat the other day and saw a newly abandoned catamaran within seconds of leaving the dock.

It had been run aground at an awkward angle, a weathered “for sale” sign testament to the owner’s inability to get rid of it. Local watermen said the boat had abruptly appeared one day in February, and had not been touched in weeks.

“Boats are luxuries,” Mr. Santos said. “This isn’t a good moment for luxuries.”

South Carolina’s unemployment rate in February was 11 percent, the second-highest in the nation after Michigan. The online classified ad service Craigslist in Charleston, S.C., features dozens of boats for sale every day. “Wife’s employer is downsizing and we are forced to do the same,” read one post.

Mr. Santos, 50, grew up in this well-to-do community on the northern side of Charleston harbor. In his youth, he never saw an abandoned boat. As recently as a decade ago, they were no more than an occasional nuisance.

Now they are proliferating. Crab Bank, a protected bird rookery in the harbor within sight of Fort Sumter, is home to a dozen derelicts — two sunken, two beached, the other eight still afloat. They range from houseboats to a two-masted sailboat.

State officers have placed placards on each, warning that the vessels have been identified as abandoned. Thanks to a local ordinance sponsored by Mr. Santos, the Mount Pleasant police are also tagging the vessels. After 45 days, they will be removed and junked.

California is taking a more benign approach, with plans in the Legislature for a boater bailout of sorts. Under a law proposed by State Representative Ted Lieu, owners of marginally seaworthy vessels would be encouraged to surrender them to the state. If they abandoned the boat, the bill would double the fine to $1,000.

The legislature passed the bill last year, but Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger returned it and many others unsigned during the state’s long struggle to settle on a budget. The measure has been reintroduced this year, and unanimously passed the assembly’s transportation committee last week and could become law as early as this summer.

Kevin Ketchum, general manager of California Yacht Marina, which operates six marinas in the state, predicted that the law “is going to be phenomenally popular. It will help honorable people who want to do the right thing but can’t afford it.”

The cost of the disposals would be paid by existing fees on boat owners. Mr. Lieu said that “in a perfect world” the fear of punishment would be enough to get people to stop abandoning boats.

“But to actually enforce that would take way more governmental resources than we have,” he said.




Hope this isn't happening to too many Ericsons! Sad to say, I have read a couple of local stories saying the same thing about people and their horses.
 
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mherrcat

Contributing Partner
My mother sent me a similar article from the Houston paper a couple of months ago. It was about boats being abandoned in California. I wish I could get some of the hardware off those boats. I'm sure it will start showing up in some of the secondhand marine hardware outlets.
 

SurabyaKid

Member III
The marina where I keep my boat has had three reposessions in the last 6 weeks and has held flat the slip fees for this year in order to lessen the number of boats potentially being abandoned at the dock.

They already have a few derelicts where the slip fees have not been paid and they can no longer contact the owners for one reason or another. These are sometimes hauled to a boneyard on the site and I have been in discussions with the marina owner to strip some parts off of them....mainly winches, tracks, rails, etc. I surveyed a few already there and they are well beyond salvage for anything but a few parts.

Pat
E26-> "Pronto"
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Hopefully all the Marinas will give people a break on the constant increases of mooring fees! I know where I am at there are a lot of vacant slips recently. My slip fees are my biggest expense and if they keep going up as they have been in recent years I will be forced to make some tough decisions about ownership. Abandoning my boat won't be an option though.

I know the Port of LA has been picking up the bill for disposal of a lot of derelict boats in the last couple of years. When and if hardware makes it to the very few boat junk yards it's still not cheap enough. I think a lot of the hardware must be going straight to recycling. A real shame.

:esad::mad::soapbox:
 
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Bardo

Member II
An interesting note of caution: a good friend of mine has a place inFt. Myers beach, FL. There is a large sailboat scuttled in shallow water nearby, and my friend went to check it out. Nice hardware in good shape. There was a marine police boat out there too, and the cop told him "if you take one item off that boat, you own it." That would be a high price to pay for a pretty winch!
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
There would be no basis in maritime law to back up that assertion, any more than picking off a branch of a driftwood trunk that has fallen from someone's property to use as firewood obligates one to remove the whole tree.

Since when do the police guard wrecks? More likely the policeman has a friend in the salvage industry, and some vigorish.
 

SurabyaKid

Member III
FYI,

That great bastion of news reporting Inside Edition is airing a piece on this this evening at 7:30 EDT.

Pat
E26->"Pronto"
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Movin' on, movin' up, givin' up...

This forum topic came up yesterday at the weekly "retired sailors coffee drinking, world problem solving, and walking" society meeting. (AKA the "geezer group") Several of the guys had read the NYTimes article on the web.
One of the gang just changed his insurance from brand X to BoatUS. The BoatUS rep told him that they would take his 80's C&C at an agreed-on value, but that valuation, in general, is quite difficult to calculate for a lot of boats now.
:confused:
Going by the old axiom that the Current Value is determined by an open sale between a willing buyer and seller... the market price spread is extremely wide in the recession.
:scared:
Two of us in the group are kind of looking to move up to larger boats, and we noted that we are not seeing much downward price movement in the nicer boats like J, C&C, Tartan, and Ericson (and other similar). Our only surmise is that higher-end boats probably tend to be owned by older sailors with little or no debt.
While owners in this demographic might like to move up in boat size, they/we are under zero financial pressure to do so, and the boats we are shopping for, in this same quality range, are not plummeting in price like all the cheap stuff at the other end of the spectrum. That's only a guess, or course, and YMMV.
In my own little situation, wanting one last larger Ericson with some more cruising amenities, I am not seeing prices dropping much for well-maintained Ericson 38's.

(Looking at Craigslist every week, I note that there are a ton of small to mid size gas powerboats priced cheap...).
All those older fixer-upper cheaper production sail boats are getting really cheap too. Lots of descriptions that start with: "would make a great live aboard!" Yeah, right.
:p

Enough rambling -- time for morning coffee!

Fair winds,
Loren
 
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u079721

Contributing Partner
I was interested in Loren's comments about the higher end of the market more or less holding its value. It does sort of make sense that owners in this group don't have boat payments, are probably not in danger of losing their homes, and don't need to sell, so they don't.

What I really wonder about is the future of boating in general, and sailing in particular. (Which probably should be a whole new thread.) When we left our club in 2004 they had dozens of open slips for the first time in many years. But much worse, there was nobody young at the club! Used to be there were young couples like Beth and me who joined the club after buying their first 23 footer. There were lots of families with young kids around too. But the last summer I remember thinking that the place looked like a retirement home. There was virtually no one around under 50, and probably half of the boaters there were already retired, spending their summers on the boats. Fine for now, but who will be left in ten years to keep the club going?

Or for that matter, who will buy that beautiful well-cared-for Ericson 38 from Loren ten years from now after he has circumnavigated in it?

We were able to afford sailing because we were DINKs living in economical Michigan. I can't imagine how young folks today can afford to get into sailing.

OK, enough whining for now.
 
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Mindscape

Member III
Young sailors

Steve makes a good point. On our pier in Kenosha I don't think there are any 'young' (20 or even 30) somethings with a boat. We are on a 'limited service' pier (no power or water) and it's all sailboats except 2 small fishing boats. As run thru the owner in my mind I can't think of anyone under 40 as a skipper. I'm happy to say our nephew has been sailing with us, he's 21 and also sails with the sailing club at UW in Madison (a great sailing program for students there BTW).
I do know our local yacht club has started a Jr's program, but I don't know how successful it's been to date.
Without support of upcoming sailors the industry could continue to slow down. Maybe it's different in other places around, but our pier is a bunch of 'old' guys sailing for fun.
 

jmcpeak

Junior Viking
Sailing has definitely become an "older man's" sport.

At 39 I'm the youngest by 10 years on any of the nearest docks.

Maybe this should be another thread but - why so few younger sailors?
 

Rob Hessenius

Inactive Member
Age

Im 40 going on 41 and Im the "baby" of the lake with years of expierence. Blows my mind that the "youth of america" are void of this sport...!!!
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Book that explains this really well

I think that it is called "last child in the woods" .... Depressing as all get out, but explains that this problem is not just sailing, but hiking, camping, fishing etc.

The book is worth a read. Also explains that the future is really dim for the environment, as the kids of today don't get out in the environment, don't love it, don't understand it, don't get anything out of it, and so don't value it.

All outdoor activities are dieing on the vine.... Unfortunate.

Guy
:-(
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Here it is

http://richardlouv.com/

Good Gosh! My childhood days spent playing in the local (unhealthy...) woods and marshes seems like an experience from another planet.
:cool:
While worried adults are reading this tome, I only hope that a new generation of youngsters are starting in on the "Swallows and Amazons" series of books. I may never get to camp on Wildcat Island or chart a Secret Water, but I almost imagine that I see it -sometimes - when we are out cruising on our boat...
;)

LB
 

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Sven

Seglare
I think that it is called "last child in the woods"

Yup, just found it on Amazon and ordered a copy.

It isn't just a US phenomena. I've noticed that the bay at the summer house is now largely quiet even during beautiful summer days. When we were kids there was always someone out by or on the water and the voices of playmates was a constant accompaniment to the lapping of the waves and boat engines. It is really sad to think that there are probably just as many kids but they are all inside watching tv or playing video games.

What a waste !



-Sven
 

Meanolddad

Member III
Sorry all, I am getting on my soapbox!

The kids today are told that everything is dangerous. When we were kids our moms kicked us out of the house because she did not want us underfoot. When I was a kid we played and roamed the neighborhood. We fell off our bicycles, fell out of trees, skinned our knees, shot bb guns, rode mini bikes, went sailing with no clue and just explored. We all learned that if you were a bit stupid it hurt. It seems that today everything has to be safe. If you want excitement go to an amusement park, thrills with no danger. If you want the ultimate safe thrill, video games. Parents complain about the games yet I have neighbors that will not let their kids walk a block to visit a friend without a parent supervising the trip because it is to dangerous to be outside. No wonder kids are all inside.

My 19 year old daughter loves to sail and is a bit frustrated because she can not find a boyfriend that does not get seasick much less like sailboats in general. My 13 year daughter does not like to sail, she volunteers at the CAF restoring WWII aircraft. Older daughter drives a '67 Mustang we restored and we just dragged home a 64 Volvo 544 to restore for younger daughter. Both daughters are actively involved it their cars.

With the way the country is going every thing fun or exciting is going to be illegal. Older daughter loves tropical fish, someone has decided that they are bad for the North American ecosystem so they may all be illegal soon. Younger daughter loves WWII aircraft and our govt. has decided that the large ones may be a threat because of terrorism. The CAF may not be able to give rides in their bombers, trainers and cargo planes. The CAF helps fund their programs through the money collected from the rides.

We worry too much about everything and try to pass legislation to protect ourselves from skinned knees to terrorism. We all have to get off this planet sooner or later anyway.

Not quite calm yet
Greg
 

CaptDan

Member III
We all have to get off this planet sooner or later anyway.

Greg

What planet? First it's cooling; then it's warming. Next up, the very fabric of life on this globe - C02 - is in BigSister's gunsights. While 31,000 scientists, many with Nobel Prizes and a litany of accomplishments, plea with our Congress to prevent the curtain from falling and the debate from ending, Anthropogenics becomes the world's new defacto 'religion.'

It's about funding and keeping the attorneys busy. Litigation, law suits, social engineering - the new frontier. Keep the kids stupid, feed 'em half truths and empirically suspect theories. Don't let on that -in the world of science - there's rarely ever 'concensus.' Frighten the parents, keep the brainwashing going 24/7. Collect the booty.

Sorry to be negative, but when I see so many pale, obese unhealthy looking kids who look as though the last time they got a dose of natural vitamin D was - uh - like, dude - never - it makes me sad. I can only hope that some day they rebel against their politically correct social masters, toss their Wiis, flatscreens and Playstations in the dumpster, join hands and yell:

"We're mad as hell and we're not going to take this anymore!"

Soapbox off.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
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