Just discovered my boat is/was documented.

[mherrcat]

I just discovered that my boat is (or was) a CG Documented Vessel; at least it comes up in a name search on this site:

http://publicrecords.onlinesearches.com/documented-vessel-database.htm

The boat was registered with the California DMV when I bought it and I never knew it was documented. The DMV title is in my name. It is listed in the documentation database with the original owner's information. I am sure the Certificate of Documentation was never renewed after he sold it. (I am at least the third owner.)

The thing that got me thinking about this was an article about boat title problems in the current issue of The Log that states:

"Federal law requires the Official Number to be permanently affixed to the vessel belowdecks in large block letters, such that alteration, removal or replacement would be obvious."

My boat has a number like that on the inside of the hull in the port lazarette.

So how does this affect me?
Can I have the Certificate of Documentation transferred or exchanged to me?
Should I do this?
What are the advantages of having a current Certificate of Documentation?

 

[u079721]

Well the good news is that should you wish to document your boat, the hard part about figuring out just what the dimensions are has already been listed with the USCG - you would just have to renew the documentation under your name, and give any new name you have you may have given to the boat.

In our case the bank required that we have the boat documented, so we went with a documentation service to speed things up. But you can do it yourself if you have the time (which we did not due to a tight closing).

As to why should you bother? That question comes up all the time, and the answer is "It depends". If you are ever going to take the boat to another country (except perhaps Canada) most folks feel it is desirable to have US Federal papers aboard, and not just a state registration title. The other reason has to do with state documentation issues. Many people wrongly believe that if their boat is federally documented then they don't have to have it registered with the state. In Michigan I can tell you that this is only true IF you only keep your boat in Michigan waters for less than 30 consecutive days a season. After that you owe the state a registration fee, with in turn requires a use tax of 6% (essentially sales tax). So if you were to spend your time cruising around and on the move you would not have to pay any one state's registration that way.

I would ask around your marina or club to see what others have done. But just because the boat was documented before does not mean that you have to now.

 

[Emerald]

Yep, it does vary state to state. In Maryland, you still have to pay sales tax when you purchase the boat, and you have a different sticker that you must renew, but I believe it's cheaper than a state registration. One of the big pluses for me was not having to have state numbers displayed. Somehow, that really just seemed gross on a boat with such nice lines as the Independence 31. Also, the fee on the documentation would seem to be a one time fee. I did it all myself. It was as simple as downloading a form from the USCG website here:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcforms.asp

and sending in my $80. Every year I receive a form verifying that no information has changed, which I sign and return and then receive my new certificate shortly thereafter. I have never had a renewal fee, so I'd say I got my $80 worth

 

[treilley]

No renewal fee unless you return the renewal form late(I believe). Or if you change something like name or hailing port.

I am not sure about this but I have heard a documented vessel is more at risk of being boarded and seized during times of war. Could be an old Captain's tale though.

At this point in Maine you do not need to register if you are documented but still need to pay the sales tax of 5%.

 

[Emerald]

I am not sure about this but I have heard a documented vessel is more at risk of being boarded and seized during times of war. Could be an old Captain's tale though.

.

I believe that as a documented vessel, in theory, you can be called into service, or the vessel anyway, in a time of war. However, I don't think our pleasure craft would be of much use, so the risk would be pretty minimal.

 

[rwthomas1]

RI has no sales tax on boats and no property tax either. They do require that you register the boat if you are spending more than 90 days (IIRC) in RI waters. That is just a 3" sticker, no state numbers, if you are already documented. I have mine registered, $250 for two years but I know many, many who don't bother at all. They don't mess with sailboats much here. Stopping a sailboat under sail is something I've never seen done or even heard of, according to my retired USCG buddy. To many dumba$$e$ in powerboats to chase instead! RT

 

[Emerald]

RI has no sales tax on boats and no property tax either. [snip] I have mine registered, $250 for two years but I know many, many who don't bother at all. RT

wow - looks like they are making up for no tax in registration. We have a 5% tax on purchase price that's a one time deal, and no property tax on the vessel. The annual sticker fee is $10 for documented vessels and $24 for registered with state numbers, and then that's every two years:

from here:
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/registration/

"$2 TITLE FEE

$24 REGISTRATION FEE

Vessels 16 feet in length or less and/or propelled by a motor of 7.5 hp or less must display a 2-year registration decal but are exempt from the fee.

The 2-year registration decal is valid for the calendar year in which it is issued and the subsequent year, expiring on December 31.

$10 DOCUMENTED DECAL (required of USCG documented vessels in lieu of the registration fee)"

 

[mherrcat]

I spoke to the Vessel Documentation Center today and it appears that all I have to do to reinstate the boat is submit form CG-1258 and a copy of my title and DMV registration. Fee is $84.

California DMV does not require registration of documented vessels, but that would only save me $20 every two years. I still have to pay property tax.

I wonder if the local CG is more apt to stop and inspect boats that do not display the DMV registration number on the bow...

wow - looks like they are making up for no tax in registration.

In reading the FAQs on the tax assessor's site they explain that automobile registration includes property tax which is then forwarded to the appropriate county, boats are handled separately with registration paid to the state and taxes paid directly to the county.

 

[Loren Beach]

I wonder if the local CG is more apt to stop and inspect boats that do not display the DMV registration number on the bow...

On this point, our local USCG, in cooperation with our county river patrol deputies, will not say publicly that they would pass up a boat with a current VSC, but they will say that on any given day they will always board the vessels that most likely are unsafe...
They describe a waterway full of jet skis and overloaded runabouts and ski boats as a "target rich" situation.


Note that this is reference to the VSC decal, which you get each spring after an inspection from a Coast Guard Aux. person.

Whether a boat is state registered with bow numbers/letters or is documented with its OR sticker on each side of the stern makes no difference at all. Having a current OR (or on our river a WA) sticker does make a large difference in their initial assessment of a boat.

I would guess that that the USCG would not view you any differently in any other state waters. Remember that they are applying nation wide rules and procedures.

Loren

 

[Mindscape]

In Wisconsin

Our boat is up in Kenosha, WI and even tho documented we must still registar with WI, but we don't have to have WI registration numbers on the hull, just a couple of stickes on the stern. Nice not having the numbers on the hull.

 

[u079721]

Our boat is up in Kenosha, WI and even tho documented we must still registar with WI, but we don't have to have WI registration numbers on the hull, just a couple of stickes on the stern. Nice not having the numbers on the hull.

This is pretty much what we had in Michigan. We still had to register the boat (~$250 for 2 or 3 years IIRC) AND pay a one time 6% use ("sales") tax, but we did - if documented - get to not put those ugly registration numbers on either side of the bow. We still had to put a small colored sticker on the bow to show we had paid registration though. All in all for Great Lakes sailing I wouldn't bother with documentation if the bank hadn't required it.

 

[CaptDan]

Whether a boat is state registered with bow numbers/letters or is documented with its OR sticker on each side of the stern makes no difference at all.

After having spoken with - and had several experiences dealing with various USCG personel over the years - I agree. Criteria for boarding recreational craft are essentially moving targets (pun intended), often influenced by the demands of periodic Guard training sessions. Registration and documentation play virtually no role in that - aside from obvious infractions, like a notably expired registration sticker.

That said, a vessel with an out of state hailing port can elicit a tactful 'open.' To wit:

"Hey folks! Looks like you're a long way from home! By the way, have you been boarded by the Coast Guard for a safety inspection lately?!"

Don't ask me how I know this. Oh - and yes, the boarding went swimmingly; everything was in order.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

 

[mherrcat]

I just received my Certificate of Documentation from the Coast Guard in the mail today. There is a statement at the bottom of the General Information sheet that accompanied the COD:

"A documented vessel may not be titled by a State...46 USC sec 12106(a)"

I will try to contact the National Vessel Documentation Center to figure this out, but does anyone here happen to know what this means? Maybe a DMV title is not necessary if the boat is officially documented?

 

[Carefree Sailor]

DMV Not Required

It is my understanding that if the boat is registered with the Coast Guard, it is not to be registered with the State. Since you are now CG registered, I would assume that you simply let your DMV registration lapse (maybe inform the DMV that you are now CG registered) and take the registration numbers off the boat.

George

 

[Greg Ross]

Canadas' approach was very similar

Mark,
Congratulations!
I purchased a USCG Documented Vessel and moved LAYLA II to Canada. By the act of licensing this boat, (a Federal program=bow numbers) the Province was able to identify me and assess the provincial sales tax on the purchase transaction (10%)
I eventually elected to register (equiv. of "documented vessel") and thru that process was directed to cancel the license (removed the bow numbers) I am now permitted to display the registered name and fly the Canadian Flag. I was required to obtain the release / conveying clear title from Homeland Security-USCG
I wonder if the province will give me my tax back!
As with "documented vessels" in the US, a Canadian registered vessel allows recording of a chattel or mortgage if you're so encumbered. And appears to constitute a title of ownership which licensing does not. At least in Canada, you say.

 

[mherrcat]

I do know, as noted in one of my posts above, that property tax and registration fees for boats in California are paid as separate payments to county and state respectively, whereas for cars they are paid as one payment to the state only. So not having to pay registration only saves me $20.

It's kind of funny that I had to use the title to prove ownership to get the COD reinstated.

David ("Emerald") mentioned a "documentation decal." Is this something that comes from the state DMV? I didn't get anything like that with the documentation certificate.

 

[PDX]

In Oregon, if your boat is federally registered you aren't supposed to register the title with the state. The boat still needs to be licensed by the state annually. I am guessing this is true of all states. Its not done through DMV but though the state marine authority.

 

[CaptDan]

I just received my Certificate of Documentation from the Coast Guard in the mail today. There is a statement at the bottom of the General Information sheet that accompanied the COD:

"A documented vessel may not be titled by a State...46 USC sec 12106(a)"

I will try to contact the National Vessel Documentation Center to figure this out, but does anyone here happen to know what this means? Maybe a DMV title is not necessary if the boat is officially documented?

You're in luck. As a Californian, you need not be registered with the state, carry CA numbers and hold a vessel title if your boat is documented. Every state is different, however; Washington, for example, levies an annual 'use tax' and requires an appropriate sticker to be afixed to the hull.

That said, you're still liable for county unsecured taxes - usually 1% of 'assessed value.' A one time state sales tax (Franchis Tax Board) is levied at time of sale.

The good news is, you'll never again pay for annual registration. Renewing your annual USCG documentation is a simple matter of faxing or mailing in a short renewal form downloadable from the NVDC.

Capt Dan G> E35II "Kunu"

 

[mherrcat]

Just spoke with the California DMV. Apparently they are supposed to receive some kind of notice from the Coast Guard that the boat has been returned to documentation and is no longer subject to state registration. That apparently hasn't happened yet. They said if I receive a renewal notice from the DMV in October to send them a copy of the COD to show that I no longer need to pay the registration fee or display the registration sticker and number. Also, it now seems that the title I received from the DMV is no longer necessary to transfer ownership of the boat; there is a form on the back of the COD that accomplishes this.

 

[Vagabond39]

Documented Vessel

I believe that as a documented vessel, in theory, you can be called into service, or the vessel anyway, in a time of war. However, I don't think our pleasure craft would be of much use, so the risk would be pretty minimal.

You might want to read up on the evacuation at Dunkirk. WW II