Chainplate Inspection [Master Thread]

pacifico · Feb 8, 2015

Re chain plate

Hola,

Thanks for getting back to me. All good info, and the $64K question is who made you the new SS chain plate tie rod blocks? Were they very specific in design and angle requiring specific measurement that a machine shop can fabricate? I saw the note that Garhauer also made the U bolts, is that what you used and if so any issues? I was planning to disassemble and take the pieces up for fabrication if I can't get it done here, or just buy through Rig-Right, but not anxious to replace rotten aluminum with new aluminum.

Dave B
s/v Pacifico
Barra de Navidad

Odelay · Mar 1, 2016

Does anyone have a source for SS blocks?
the guys at Gaurhaur said they haven't made them...

Loren Beach · Mar 1, 2016

Odelay said:
Does anyone have a source for SS blocks?
the guys at Gaurhaur said they haven't made them...

I would check the vast McMaster Carr site. It is a great resource.
They have SS, and also Ti.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#titanium/=11cr1rs

Loren

Odelay · Mar 1, 2016

I'm asking about who will drill the angles to fit the Cold Head correctly

e38 owner · Mar 1, 2016

chain plates

I have been working on this same issue on another boat.

I replaced the aluminum block a few years ago. It is leaking again and I am redoing next weekend. I think the leak is not from the chain plate but from a po installed jib track next to it. and the water escapes at the Chain Plate.

I took the old aluminum block to a computerized machine shop next to my business and he made me two new blocks. The price for one or two was the same. I then took them over and had them anodized.

The adjustment of the rod is critical. I had a boat yard rebed the chain plate on my 38 and he made it a little tight, (Not Good) I made it a little loose (Not Good either)

I was told not to seal the bottom so the water has some place to go. (which is the worse of the two evils) I was also told to seal it to keep the water off the block if there is a leak. I did not seal the bottom. It is leaking again, But I know it.

When I redo I am thinking of lightly coating the block in epoxy before I assemble it to keep the water off and metals apart.

I may also add a small piece of glass or g10.

I don't know enough about materials to answer this question but I did find that g10 is stronger than the aluminum. One thought was to make the plate from 1" G10. However It may be more brittle and is not something I want to experiment with.

In terms of finding a stainless block Hobie 33's were made the same way and there have been a number of owners who have had new blocks made. An owner in Florida lost the rig when one broke. There is a Hobie 33 yahoo group. I think there may be source there. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hobie33/conversations/topics/4988

pacifico · Mar 2, 2016

Nav Tec U bolt and backing block replacements, E-34

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I had the work done in Mazatlan, Mexico by Rick Cummings at Mazatlan Marine Service. He had a local source for SS fabrication and had the guy obtain 316ss from Guadalajara. He made all eight u-bolts, oversize deck plates to fit the indent in the deck and custom machined each new ss backing plate, about $120 US each set and they are highly polished and beautiful if I do say so myself. Rick and I did the work, pulled all the old and yes, had to drill a hole between the u-bolt holes to bring the rod up through the deck. The rods were all good, crevice corrosion found in four of eight u-bolts. Some of the aluminum backing plates were corroded by at least 3/8 inch, some were as good as the day they went in but all were replaced. I took lots of photos and when I can put together a photo album of the job I'll post it. My tensioning of the down rods still isn't quite right, too tight portside center, but it's working. I had a lot of other work done too while in the yard, complete new bottom fixing blisters and two areas that were ‘resin starved’ in the mold, all new canvas, a custom swim step and a few other things, very affordable, very good work. I don't have all the records with me, stored at home, I'm in Zihuatanejo, Mx.
To clarify, you say that a number of the Hobies had them replaced also, and one broke. Did the original break or the replacement? And what broke? The U bolt, backing plate or tie rod? If you know.
Thanks

e38 owner said:
I have been working on this same issue on another boat.

I replaced the aluminum block a few years ago. It is leaking again and I am redoing next weekend. I think the leak is not from the chain plate but from a po installed jib track next to it. and the water escapes at the Chain Plate.

I took the old aluminum block to a computerized machine shop next to my business and he made me two new blocks. The price for one or two was the same. I then took them over and had them anodized.

The adjustment of the rod is critical. I had a boat yard rebed the chain plate on my 38 and he made it a little tight, (Not Good) I made it a little loose (Not Good either)

I was told not to seal the bottom so the water has some place to go. (which is the worse of the two evils) I was also told to seal it to keep the water off the block if there is a leak. I did not seal the bottom. It is leaking again, But I know it.

When I redo I am thinking of lightly coating the block in epoxy before I assemble it to keep the water off and metals apart.

I may also add a small piece of glass or g10.

I don't know enough about materials to answer this question but I did find that g10 is stronger than the aluminum. One thought was to make the plate from 1" G10. However It may be more brittle and is not something I want to experiment with.

In terms of finding a stainless block Hobie 33's were made the same way and there have been a number of owners who have had new blocks made. An owner in Florida lost the rig when one broke. There is a Hobie 33 yahoo group. I think there may be source there. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hobie33/conversations/topics/4988

e38 owner · Mar 2, 2016

It is my understanding from the hobie blog that the backing plate failed at the connection with the rod and pulled through the deck

"The cast aluminum backing plate under deck below the pad eye for your side stay shrouds is corroded.
During a fair weather day sail with 12 kts wind and hardly any waives the rod from the bulk head pulled through the backing plate causing a catastrophic failure of the shrouds. With a crack a 7 x 3 foot section of the deck ripped upwards while the mast fell leewards. Including the forward jib track the section of the deck ripped off at the toe-rail and stood vertical.
Our mast and sail were nearly unharmed. The cast aluminum base of the mast remained standing on deck while the mast broke free missing only a quarter of it's circumference which can be sleeved. Look for photos under "backing plate" here in the photo section. In February the same backing plate failed on SOAP OPEPRA. "

Save yourself from injuries and major repairs by replacing the backing plates. The corrosion is probably the same on all H33s of the 80ties. My guess is electrolytic and MIRAGE will not have a cast aluminum again but SS in it's place. By the way "SOAP OPEPRA" is from a fresh water lake in TX and even though they raced to Hawaii they aren't too much in salt water. The amount of sailing may not have very much to do with corrosion.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hobie33/conversations/messages/3907

pacifico · Mar 3, 2016

Thanks fore that, big problems with Internet connection on board today, am ashore on local wifi. Should have commented that I had no visable leaks around chain plate U bolts in the 14 years I've had this boat, but must have had some at the base to allow salt water intrusion, however slight.

e38 owner said:
It is my understanding from the hobie blog that the backing plate failed at the connection with the rod and pulled through the deck

"The cast aluminum backing plate under deck below the pad eye for your side stay shrouds is corroded.
During a fair weather day sail with 12 kts wind and hardly any waives the rod from the bulk head pulled through the backing plate causing a catastrophic failure of the shrouds. With a crack a 7 x 3 foot section of the deck ripped upwards while the mast fell leewards. Including the forward jib track the section of the deck ripped off at the toe-rail and stood vertical.
Our mast and sail were nearly unharmed. The cast aluminum base of the mast remained standing on deck while the mast broke free missing only a quarter of it's circumference which can be sleeved. Look for photos under "backing plate" here in the photo section. In February the same backing plate failed on SOAP OPEPRA. "

Save yourself from injuries and major repairs by replacing the backing plates. The corrosion is probably the same on all H33s of the 80ties. My guess is electrolytic and MIRAGE will not have a cast aluminum again but SS in it's place. By the way "SOAP OPEPRA" is from a fresh water lake in TX and even though they raced to Hawaii they aren't too much in salt water. The amount of sailing may not have very much to do with corrosion.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hobie33/conversations/messages/3907

DougC · Jan 30, 2017

E33 Chain Plate

Hi Guys,

I am into this project on my 82 E33. The chain plate design is very similar to the 34 with rods and aluminum backing plate. The U bolts which pass through the hull and bolt to the underside of the backing plate appear to be welded to the aluminum from corrosion. I am going to try to free the parts up but may end up cutting the U bolts above deck as you did. I am wondering where you sourced new U bolts and stainless steel backing plate?

Doug Coyle Cumberland Maine

Alan Gomes · Jan 30, 2017

DougC said:
Hi Guys,

I am into this project on my 82 E33. The chain plate design is very similar to the 34 with rods and aluminum backing plate. The U bolts which pass through the hull and bolt to the underside of the backing plate appear to be welded to the aluminum from corrosion. I am going to try to free the parts up but may end up cutting the U bolts above deck as you did. I am wondering where you sourced new U bolts and stainless steel backing plate?

Doug Coyle Cumberland Maine

Garhauer made me a custom set for my E26-2. Phone: 909-985-9993.

Shelman · Jan 30, 2017

The secret to getting the u-bolts to break free from the backing plates is to over tighten the nuts just enough to compress the plywood core of the deck enough to break the hold from the corrosion.
Several of us have replaced the u-bolts with a superior one piece u-bolt and deck plate custom made by garhauer marine. The benifits to the new ones are that they seal better at the deck and garhauer makes the u bolt full diameter all the way arround the top of the curve for extra strength. You might need to have them make you some custom toggles to match the larger diameter u-bolts as well.

Here is some further reading.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...E38-Chainplate-U-Bolts-and-Replacements/page3

Shelman · Jan 30, 2017

Garhauer fabricated part on left, original ericson part on right.

pacifico · Jan 30, 2017

Chain plate tie rod backing plate corrosion re placement

Apologies to any that were interested in my repair project a couple of years ago. My computer crashed and I lost the hard drive and all work photos of this repair. In short I took Pacifico up to Mazatlan in June, 2015 to Mazatlan Marine Service. The owner, Rick Cummings and I did all the work, he was the brains but we both sweat a lot. Applied heat and tapping to get the tough backing nuts off the U bolts, most came easily. Pryed and hammered the stubborn ones free and then pulled up through the deck. Same to get the aluminum backing plates off. Drilled a hole between the U bolt holes for the tie rod to come up and out through the deck, but first drilled a 3" hole in the furniture behind the cushions, measuring down to the pipe the rod is threaded through, applying penitrating oil to the threads then using a wrench on the flat turning point on the tie rods and they unscrewed and came up and out easily. We were surprised that there were no backing nuts on the tie rods below the pipe. Rick had a local machine shop get 316 ss out of Guadalajara and make new backing plates, exact copies, and new U bolts and oversize deck plates, about $120 US a set and very nicely done. My deck showed no indication of core rot or damage. It all went back in, in reverse, we added backing nuts on the rods, epoxied the holes in the deck and I've had no problems since. One less thing to worry about.

DougC · Jan 31, 2017

Thanks Al, I called them yesterday. They can build new U bolts but cant duplicate the backing block in either aluminum of stainless. Did replace the blocks on your boat? If so where did you source them?

Doug Coyle

Afrakes · Jan 31, 2017

Machine shop

Those block are very simple. A local machine shop should be able to fabricate them easily. Aluminum stock can be purchased through McMaster Carr.

DougC · Jan 31, 2017

I was hoping that was the case!! Thanks. Did you end up using aluminum or go with stainless?

Doug

Afrakes · Feb 1, 2017

Aluminum Blocks

Doug: I was stripping the boat for disposal so I didn't need to have the blocks fabricated. I saved the u bolts and nuts as spares for my present boat.

dcoyle · Feb 1, 2017

OK thanks again. I have found a local machine shop here in Maine that said they could manufacture both the U bolts and backing plate. All I need to do is get them out of boat!

Doug

dcoyle · Feb 6, 2017

WOHOO got 3 of 6 chain plates out with the help of my new 4 lbs sledge hammer and heat. Ended up tightening nuts and slightly decompressing deck to help break corrosion free. Now have to figure out how to remove connecting rods as they hit cabin top before fully coming free from hull connection.

Working with Garhuer Marine now on new U bolts. They are considering making a run of the U bolts to lower cost and have some in stock. Is anyone in need of new ones?

Doug Coyle
Cumberland Maine

markvone · Feb 7, 2017

I may need them.

Hi Doug,

I just got a look at mine when I peeled back the headliner to replace my leaking ports. There's a whole lot of white aluminum corrosion dust in the area. You can see from the second picture that the aft port is directly above the chain plate so water drains down to the chain plate area.

My original ports were leaking a lot over the last 35 years and the teak plywood was completely rotted out and all
the staples below the ports and above the chain plates were totally rusted to dust. I don't know if the U bolts are leaking also, but I will know shortly when I get them disassembled.

Mark

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