Adler Barbour Duty Cycle

[ted_reshetiloff]

I have just finished searching the archives to no avail on this question. I am going to be replacing the batteries on the E-38 I am purchasing and I am attempting to calculate the amp/hour consumption for the boat on a 24 hr period. Not sure if that sentence made sense but I am trying get an estimate of how much juice I will consume on average in a 24 hr period. I have added up the watt hours for cabin lights, running lights, anchor light, water pumps, bilge and shower pumps, stereo, auto pilot, and other electronics, then converted to amp hours. What I don't know is how often and for how long on average the refer will run on the E-38 assuming it is performing properly and conditions are average for our Chesapeake bay summers... I estimated it at 60 amp hours if it ran 50% of the day but I think it would probably be less. Adler Barbour says 4.5-5.5 amps when cycling, so 5 amps for 12 hours... Any actual experience here? Thoughts right now are for a 200amp hour AGM for the house bank with a 50 amp hour AGM for engine.

Thanks,

Ted Reshetiloff

 

[Loren Beach]

Our experiences may guide you to some extent, but you really need to compile some hard data for your particular boat. There are printed guides to figure daily power usage in 'most every book on 12 systems for boats.

Your refrig. needs will depend on how well insulated the box is, size of the box interior, and how often you open the lid. [And, make sure the lid is insulated...] Oops, almost forgot to mention ambient temp.

Ericson did not insulate the lid on our '88. The rest of our box has about 3" of rigid foam. We insulated the lid on ours, and also plugged the drain.


Perhaps examples from the rest of us will help you some: So I shall start.
We have two flooded Trojan T-145's for the house bank. We found that running our newly-install Frigoboat system last summer was costing us about .2 volt loss in a little under 2 days (digital meter) while at anchor. This year I am installing an amp-hour meter to get more info -- or to confuse myself with excess information.
I have an AGM group 31 emergency/starting battery also. Our ice box size is about 3 cu.ft.
Your AB system probably has almost the same compressor as ours, a Danfoss. You probably have a radiator or perhaps an outside-water pump for heat transfer.
We went for the max. efficiency and put in a "keel cooler".
We also have the variable speed controler on the compresser.

Can you more completely describe your boat and system? Thanks.

Best,
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 #8

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Duty Cycle For Adler Barbour

Thanks Loren. I am doing just what you say, calculating the amp hour usage for the boat. The boat is a 1989 E-38 200. The box is 6 cubic feet I believe. The lid has been insulated, by the PO I believe. I was hoping to hear from some E-38 owners about this unit as I believe it is on many late 80' 38's. You mention in one of your posts that you estimate your unit to run 20%. This unit I am guesing will run longer due to it being air cooled, larger box, higher ambient temps. I plan on doing what ever I can to improve the insulation of the box and may look into converting the unit to water cooled at some point. It being winter and not having and real data to work with I am sort of fishing. What is the total amp hour capacity of the house bank you use on your 34? I am thinking I would like to be somewhere between 200-300 in the house bank with a separate starting battery. In cruising the chesapeake we typically run the engine for an hour a day anyway. Thanks for your help.

 

[Loren Beach]

My pair of T-145's were supposedly rated at 235 amp hours when I bought them. The Trojan web site now rates them at 260 AH.

Oh well, at least least we have ample AH for our refrigeration --next thing to add will be a furnace... not sure how we will power that idea...


If you figure that you should always stay above half charge, you still would have over 100 amp hours to use, with over 200 AH in that house bank,as I see it.

Best,
Loren
ps:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=1163&referrerid=28

This is the link to a prior refrigeration thread on this site that discusses aspects of the project.

 

[oceandreams89]

Hi Ted,
I installed an Adler Barbour super cold machine last summer into our 1989 E-38-200. We have a house bank of 2 group 27 batteries and a starter battery group 24. I have also installed a Balmar 100A alternator and ARS IV voltage regulator. (all because of installing the frige) I am planning on upgrading the house to Group 31's also just because of the fridge for just a little more power and peace of mind.

The unit cycles on once about every 10-15 minutes to keep the box cold durring the summer heat. This is with the temp set to about 4-5 on the thermostat scale. I usually also place a few blocks of ice in the bottom of the icebox just to help limit cycles and help the initial cooling of the box while out cruising and away from the battery charger. I generally run the engine for about 1/2 to 1 hour a day to heat the hot water and top off the house bank from the frige draw. (which is why I ungraded the alternator) The book numbers are about right as far as consumption. I did nothing to the stock icebox and it is efficient enought to make ice in the ice trays of the fridge, and hold it. (as well as holding ice cream for a while)

I'm not sure where you placed your unit, but mine I placed under the galley sink on a platform I built for it. In addition I cut a hole in the side of the cabinet and installed a nice teak louvered vent to facilitate airflow into the compartment. I also leave the access door open slightly when it is very hot to allow better air circulation. So far it works great and I have run it continuously without any problems. I have also installed a Blue Sea Systems analog ammeter so I can monitor the loads carefully. As far as I can tell, as long as you have a good starter battery and a couple of good house batteries you should be fine, and enjoying nice cold drinks.

Good luck with it, it was 5 years coming for us and we are very glad we did the install. No more lugging ice around every few days while on vacation.

Enjoy.

 

[oceandreams89]

Also, my neighbor installed the same unit on his Pearson 36 but did the water cooling option as well and he effectively talked me out of it. The water cooling pump adds about an amp to the draw and cloggs very easily which will burn out the motor. After replacing 3 motors he does not use the water cooling option any more. He never noticed a difference in performance.

Once the box is cooled down the unit cycles less drawing less power. At first the fan may run for a half hour but then cycle on and off.

Also, I initially tried the system without upgrading the alternator which took forever and a day to re-charge the batts. Decided to do the alt, and all was well afterwards.

After all this rambling, the bigger the batteries the better.

As Tim Allen used to say on "Home Improvement"......"MORE POWER!!!!"

 

[Loren Beach]

Transfering that Heat...

As "oceandreams89" sez, the 12 volt pump is a potential problem in the type of water-cooling that runs the water through a heat exchanger. Note that if you have one of these, you do not normally have a cooling fan and radiator.
I cannot imagine how his buddy with the Pearson is getting any efficiency at all without running the pump, unless Adler Barber uses both types of cooling on the same chasis.
I had several folks effectively talk me out of that type of cooling system when I was planning our installation.
It seemed like the the cheaper air-transfer radiator with a fan was considered purdy good and the "keel cooler" on the outside of the hull was much better, albeit for more money. I chose to spend the extra b.u.c.'s to keep the AH needs as minimal as possible. Others would have diffferent priorities and needs.

Cheers,
Loren in PDX

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

The unit is mounted on a shelf above the holding tank in the stbd cockpit locker. When you mention yours running every 15 minutes or so, how long does it run for?

 

[oceandreams89]

Hi Ted,

The on the 10-15 minute cycle period I mentioned yesterday, the unit runs for 10 min and is off for 10 min approximately. It is always about an equal period of off and on cycle.

Also, regarding Lorens reply, my friends Pearson has the same Adler Barbour super cold machine as I do. The water cooling is an optional add on package to enhance the cooling capabilities of the air system which includes a water pump etc as I mentioned. It is the additional draw from the additional pump motor which takes the power and causes the reliability problem if it gets clogged. These systems are said to work great and are really needed as an option in tropical waters, but here in the northeast it adds little benefit for the added battery drain.

I understand the keel cooler systems are the best with the lowest power draw and noise of any system. Sometimes I wish I went that route on Ocean Dreams instead of the air system with the noisy fan. Hindsight.......

Todd

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Duty Cycle

Thanks Todd. If the unit runs 10 min on followed by 10 min off then I would guess it to run 12hrs in a 24hr period so it should consume about 60 amp hours in a 24 hr period assuming it runs 4.5-5.5amps. I was sort of hoping the duty cycle would be shorter than 50% but I guess with the hot summers and standard insulation on the ice box this is probably about normal. I spoke with my father last night who had a cold machine on the wodden yawl we lived on when I was a kid. He said he thought it ran about 50% as well. I am thinking I will probably shoot for one 4D AGM and a group 31 AGM for my house bank getting me to about 300 amp hours and a group 24 AGM for a starting battery, but I still have a bit more work on the calculations to do. Thoughts on a group 24 for a staring battery on the universal? I was thinking of an Optima but I dont want to mix battery types, sticking with AGMs.

 

[Loren Beach]

Battery Notes

You might want to look into using a couple of golf cart size batteries. The 4D (and 8D) are not popular around here because of the weight and back injuries you risk in moving them. :eek:

Loren

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Battery size

Yeah, the 4Ds are pretty unforgiving on the back for sure. I just don't see how you will get 300 AH worth of battery for much less weight. The golf cart battries , I assume you mean 6v, would still require just as much weight in the end. I am planning on putting the starting battery and the group 31 on the opposite side of the boat from the 4D.

 

[Mike.Gritten]

Ted,

I have the 6v Trojan "golf cart" batteries and you're absolutely right - they are heavy, but, (and here's where the advantage is) you only have to lift them one at a time. At 60+lbs. that's still not easy, but it's a whole lot nicer than 120lbs. in one piece!

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Thanks Mike. I may very well go the 6volt route. Have to see what the space considerations are. I am wondering though about using a group 24 AGM as a starting battery for the universal M-4 diesel. Any thoughts on that size battery? I have not been able to locate any info on the required CCA for that engine.

Ted,

 

[oceandreams89]

Ted,
I use a group 24 for an engine start battery as well on our '89 38-200 with the same engine. It spins it over like a top. No problem. Remember you still have the house side to crank it up if you want to.

I wired the start battery to the "2" side of the battery selector switch and the 2 group 27 house batteries in parallel to the "1" side of the switch. Remembering to switch the switch to the correct position is cheaper than an isolator. Generally I always run the house, even for starting so the switch generally stays in the "1" position. If the batt voltage gets low I switch to "ALL" or "2" to utilize the start battery voltage. Also, when discharging the house I always monitor the start battery voltage to make sure I have it available if I need it, and that it has not discharged.

Works well, simple, and lasts a long time.....

Good luck, They are wonderful boats. I know you will love your new purchase.

Todd

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Thanks Todd. I will go with the 24 for the starting battery but will probably get a 4d for the house battey. I have a group 31 AGM on my old boat now and may add that to the 4d to get up to around 300AH based on my estimations of current consumption with the fridge and other items.