Advice on Ericson 28 - looking to take the plunge

[berner73]

Well, here she is:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1424&url=

Hi Everyone,

New to this site, but trying to catch up with lots of reading - resulting in some rather bloodshot eyes at work.

My wife and I are in the market for a 28' to 30' cruiser to be used mainly for weekend sailing/cruising and maybe an occasional overnight trip. Initially, racing isn't much of a concern. We'll be sailing out of Boston harbor and plan on spending most of our time local to the North Shore coasts and Cape Cod.

I've been sailing for about 12 years, but mostly fresh water day sailing (19') with occasional access to a 27' Soling in Boston Harbor. While not biased toward any specific manufacturer, we're looking for quality and value. I'm not concerned at all with 'name brand' recognition at the marina.

Due to reputation, we were initially looking at Tartan, Sabre's, Pearson, etc. (and still are). During that search, I came upon this 1986 Ericson 28. I wasn't familiar with the company at first, so I'm glad to have this site as a reference.

At the top is the link to all the pictures and specs. I'm planning on taking a look at it over the next 2 weeks and thought I'd solicit observations, opinions or experiences from anyone willing to chime in. I've read hundreds of posts here, which is why this boat is in the running to begin with.

Thoughts on durability, quality of workmanship, asking price, and (if it's even possible), a general feel for the amount of work/cost associated with buying a 23 year old Ericson? Do you see anything from the pictures that screams out to you? Gotcha's that maybe only Ericson owners would catch? I'm looking forward to working on what ever boat we end up with, but would like to get on the water too.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[treilley]

She appears to be in fairly good condition although broker's photos don't usually highlight the bad. Interior woodwork has been neglected but easily fixed. Cabin sole also looks pretty tired. Obviously get a Survey. Peter Hunt is an excellent surveyor and knows Ericsons well.

Ericsons are well built quality boats on par with Sabre and a little better fit and finish than Pearson.

 

[Loren Beach]

In general...

In general, comparing an Ericson to a Tartan or Sabre is accurate. As to what to plan on fixing after about a quarter century, most things will be the same on any of these makes.
This is about the time, age wise, where the sellers realize that they either have to finally replace long-overdue standing rig, running rigging, and lifelines -- or move on.
The rubber in the original motors mounts is probably rock-hard, too. Ditto all the cooling system hoses, bilge hoses, and similar.

A great many owners sell that boat instead, figuring that selling a clean-Looking boat is cheaper than crossing off items on the dreaded Deferred Maintenance List. To play "devil's advocate" for a moment though, unless that owner plans to amortize out their dollars and keep and use that boat another decade, maybe it pencils out better for their situation. They just have to accept a lower offer from an informed buyer.

Personally, we have gone though this money-and-time calculation every few years, and then decide to keep and upgrade our present boat. While no one usually makes money buying and selling boats (except the broker), the longer you keep it, the more up to date your maint. schedule, and the more days you spend on the water each year, the cheaper it gets.

IF that '86 boat actually has a low hour (less than 1000, in round numbers) diesel and IF the oil was changed every season, it should last easily over 4000 hours... i.e. long enough for your grand children to be cruising in it.
Note that the stock marine head (toilet) in the photos is a Raritan PH2, replacement being close to $400. retail. There's likely a near-$280. manual bilge pump in the cockpit. Ericson put high-end, blue-water-spec stuff in their boats, unlike a number of large production builders we could mention.

I admit than I am partial to fractional rigs (or any rig with a proportionately smaller fore triangle) for short handed sailing. I really like the Bruce King 80's fractional Ericsons. Maybe it's just me, but this type of rig seems easier to single hand, and you will find yourself even using a spinnaker more often because it is smaller on such a rig. We had a slightly smaller fract. rig boat for a decade and the chute could be -and was- flown by a couple with "Otto" doing some steering duty.


There are a lot of owners of E-built sister designs lurking here, and they should have opinions on details to look for....
I would vote for getting good survey on the boat, and an engine survey also -- no matter what brand of boat you make an offer on, at this age.

Fair winds, and post often here when/if you own any Ericson product.

Regards,
Loren

ps: Joe, I hope that moving your thread to a forum created just for this sort of inquiry is ok with you.

 

[GMaurer]

Ericson 28

As my first and only boat, I purchased my 1988 E28 about 8 years ago. Great boat, solid, easily single handed. The interior, if well maintained, is a head-turner.
Since purchase, I've added an autopilot and stereo (my E28 was pre-wired for cabin speakers). I gave up on trying to maintain the original Universal and Hurth transmission, so I repowered with a 2 cylinder Yanmar (good fit), and added a folding prop. The prop makes a significant difference in speed under sail.
If you get the boat, be sure to check for the wiring upgrade to the solenoid (addressed elsewhere on this site). Makes a huge difference in reliable starting.
To me, the price looks reasonable if she surveys well.

 

[joe-fran]

Fellow Ericson owner south of Boston

I bought an 1987 E-28 just this June (an upgrade from my 1971 E-27)
I am loving it. Good performance, nice handling in 15 - 25 knot winds coming up through Buzzards Bay in July. comfortable and dry. I bought her from the original owner and she was stored in Warren Rhode Island.

WHile of course she needs a few upgrades, I will spend the summer and fall making my winter/spring to do list.

Keep in mind there is a lack of storage on an E-28 especially when compared to an 30 foot boat but the Ericsons are well made and I expect this is my last boat and my grandkids will be sailing her some time.
If I can be of any assistance, contact me on a private e-mail

 

[berner73]

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far. I have to admit, I didn't expect such quick and participated response. Seems as though this forum adds an intangible value to owning an Ericson and I hope we can find one that fits our situation.

Depending on the mood of Hurricane Bill, we have an appointment for an initial inspection/walk through this Sunday afternoon. I'll be sure to update after (and probably have more questions).

I came across a couple of initial inspection guides online to supplement the comments from all of you. While it isn't a substitute for a survey in any way, I'm hoping it will allow us to identify any show stoppers.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/48177-boat-inspection-trip-tips.html

http://www.sailingmates.com/buying-a-used-sailboat.htm

Thanks again, and I'd love to hear more thoughts if they're out there.

Joe

 

[bayhoss]

Fellow E28 owner

Before purchasing my 1986 E28 I looked at a lot of boats. As stated before there are going to be things like running rigging, hoses, general plumbing that will need to be addressed because of age. You're going to find these issues on about any boat of that age. Two things that will stand out with the E28. First it is a very well constructed, solidly buit boat. For weekends out, which is why I purchased mine the interior has a good amount of room for the size of boat. The E28 with its fractional rig is a sweetheart of a boat to single hand. It's very stable in hard weather. I have not one complaint with mine. If there are any future help or if questions arise, please ask.

Best Regards,
Frank
E28+ Valinor

 

[C Masone]

The only thing that bothers me is the price.

I bought a 1987 E32 for $19000 earlier this year, be aggressive, the season is over and they need to pay yard bills.

 

[Lucky Dog]

Welcome, hope you stay.

I joined a few years ago. Started out looking at Pearson. Spent a week on a friends Ericson 27. Really like the cockpit layout.

It took me a month of evening but read every post in the design & function, and Maintenance sections.

When we found our present boat, I knew just what to look for and what questions to ask. This forum is a great asset to Ericson, akin to Apple or Harley Davison.

My wife refers to it as the brotherhood.

Lot of good advice and often lightening fast.

ml

 

[Loren Beach]

The only thing that bothers me is the price.

I bought a 1987 E32 for $19000 earlier this year, be aggressive, the season is over and they need to pay yard bills.

Unless your got an acknowledged "fixer upper" and needed to invest about 20K in your first two years of ownership... you got one of those rare steals. Good for you. Perhaps not so good for the seller.

Of course we do not have the "yard bill" situation out here in the NW where boats can normally stay in their slip year around. It would be different if annual decommissioning, haul out, and covered storage were an annual financial burden.

Most of the time, a careful buyer will get pretty much what they are willing to pay for.

Cheers,
Loren

 

[C Masone]

I don't think it's a rare steal, the price of homes has gone down close to 40% and the price of boats is no different (if not worse), they just keep asking the same on Yachtworld. While I was shopping this year, the three boats I looked at carefully all had stories of owners who lost jobs, were transfered, buisness was down, those three boats sold, all of the other boats I have been tracking, that have higher prices, are still for sale, there is no market right now, it's the Perfect Storm, buyers market, go for it, don't let your emotions get in the way.

 

[jreddington]

Probably the biggest thing keeping me from getting a bigger Ericson is that my E-28 single hands so well. She's a little "tippy" initially but hardens up nicely between 15 and 20 degrees. It can be a bit disconcerting to a guest but a nice feel once you're moving along.

My 1984 does have some more teak up the sides of the bunks and in the head. The amount of plastic inside is a bit disconcerting to me but that's just a style issue.

One area to be careful is with the veneer around the main cabin ports. These ports can leak. By the time you notice it, the damage has already begun. Cost me well over $1,000 to have this replaced a few years ago. It did make me think of replacing it with a white laminate instead of wood veneer. It would be less susceptible to water damage and lighten up the cabin. But I went traditional and replaced it with wood veneer.

I do think my auxiliary engine is a little underpowered. When you are cruising in the middle of New England's dead still August, it would be nice to get a knot or so more out of the engine. And when you're trying to punch through a hefty chop, the waves seriously knock down your speed and with only 11 hp the boat is slow to reaccelerate.

 

[berner73]

Looked at the 28 Ericson - inspection results w/ pictures

Got to look at her last night, mixed opinions on the boat, but the broker is fantastic, very helpful and knowledgeable.

Here are some observations followed by some pictures. This is the first 28' we've looked at from a purchasing perspective. I'm admittedly ignorant of what constitutes 'bad' vs. 'average' vs. 'run away'. I'm trying to keep in mind that it's a 24 year old boat, so please comment on my observations and conclusions.

Good

• Deck and Cockpit layout - overall impressed with the Ericson 28
• Room above board is perfect for us
• Size of the boat is comfortable from a sailing experience and intended use perspective
• Extensive feature list
• New mast and main
• Most of the rigging looks serviceable for a couple of seasons if not longer
• Engine looks to be in better shape than I would have expected (~1100 hours), no visible water in the oil, and appears to have been updated/maintained accordingly
• Deck and Hull appear to be in good shape

Bad/Concerning/Observations

• Interior has been neglected - concerns me about how the owners have maintained the rest of the boat
• Damp smells in Cabin
• Cushions must be replaced immediately ($3K - $4K?)
• Water in Anchor Locker - probably just plugged as discussed on this forum
• Some damage to deck and cockpit sole/companionway entrance, but I don't have the knowledge to gauge it's impact (picture)
• Water in compartment below step to Vberth, not sure if this could be a result of anchor locker plug?
• Steering seems to be in good shape except for corrosion on shaft (same for drive shaft). Not sure if this is normal, so please comment (pictures)
• Looks as though there may be a water line/stains on sole and some portions of vertical woodwork and bulkhead. Not present everywhere though (pictures)
• Bilge seemed to have a bit more water than I would have expected. This boat appeared to have 2 pumps in two different sections beneath the sole, is that normal?

Looking for opinions on this stuff. As a newbie, some of this strikes me as serious enough to walk away, but I may be over reacting as well. My biggest concern is the overall condition of the interior. It shows such neglect that I question the owner's treatment of the boat in general. I have no problem with buying the boat and fixing these issues if they're just cosmetic. I'd like to avoid a survey though if it's obvious to a experienced eye that there are some real issues here.

Please comment from experiences or observations with your own boat. Looking at a Cal 28 this morning. Will continue to look at different options so that we can make useful comparisons.

Here are some photos. I can only upload 5 at a time, so let's start with these.

Thanks everyone.

 

[treilley]

I see nothing in those photos that is not in line with a 20+ year old boat. Maybe a little more damage to the bridgedeck than normal but likely just cosmetic. The drive shaft looks fine although the hose clamps should be offset 180°. The water staining around the v-berth could be of concern but again mostly cosmetic. I guarantee that this boat leaks from above as will 99% of the 20+ year old boats on the market. Dampness feeling can be bad or nothing at all. I once checked out an E34 that felt like a rain forest and had water dripping from most of the headliner. This boat was on the hard and covered so that water was coming out of the deck through the headliner.

I would very strongly recommend not skipping a survey. What you cannot see can hurt you. You absolutely at a minimum should do moisture tests on the deck and hull. You should also have the hull and deck sounded with a phenolic hammer to check for delamination. You also need to pull the boat to do the survey and then you will be able to check for osmostic blistering which is very common on 80s boats. A thorough inspection of the standing rigging is a must.

Some boats have an additional bilge pump for redundancy or it could be for a shower.

If you are willing to spend $25k+ for a boat, a survey should be no problem. In fact a survey will often pay for itself by finding things to deduct from the price of the boat.

Some things you have not mentioned:
- How are the through hulls? Do they have proper seacocks? Are all hoses double clamped with Awab clamps?
- How do the spars look? Blistering paint around fittings?
- How do the winches look? Do they spin properly with a minimum of play?
- How old is the standing rigging? When was last inspection?

 

[berner73]

Tim,

Thank you for the reply. We will absolutely will get a survey on any boat that we have serious interest in, no question. This will include a separate engine survey and pulling the boat for proper inspection. Right now we're just trying to eliminate anything that doesn't even warrant a survey.

From my untrained eye:

The spars look good

I only checked 2 winches - forgot the others - seemed fine

The through hulls that I saw were seacocks, but I didn't check clamps - good point

I don't have an age on the standing rigging, but I'll see if I can get it.

Heading out to see the Cal 28 now, so I appreciate the pointers. Hopefully I'll get better at this inspection thing.

 

[treilley]

Sorry, misunderstood the survey thing. Here is a good inspection list for qualifying a boat.

http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php?p=36318

 

[PDX]

Why the new mast?

Replacing the mast is not routine maintenance on a 20 some year old boat.

There is a thread somewhere on here about someone replacing the traveler on an Ericson 28. His boom was bent in two places. I believe he mentioned that there were a couple others in the SF bay where the booms were broken.

Is there something about the rig on this boat that places extraordinary strain on the spars?

 

[treilley]

I don't think the mast should be replaced unless damaged beyond repair. I do think it should be stripped and repainted if it is already painted and blistering badly around fittings.

 

[Loren Beach]

Lots to consider

Why the new mast?

Replacing the mast is not routine maintenance on a 20 some year old boat.

There is a thread somewhere on here about someone replacing the traveler on an Ericson 28. His boom was bent in two places. I believe he mentioned that there were a couple others in the SF bay where the booms were broken.

Is there something about the rig on this boat that places extraordinary strain on the spars?

One guess is that the original standing rig was not inspected regularly and a wire failed at a fitting and the mast came down kinked. Strictly IMHO, but standing rigging over 15 years of age is getting into higher risk territory. Is the present spar a Kenyon? They did the stock rigs on most 80's Ericson products, but have been out of business for a long time. I doubt that the rig would have any design problems, given the BK pedigree.

As to the photos, I would plan on filling in the exposed "air pocket" in the raised molding around the hatch -- this is a common problem on all makes of boats where there are sharp little radius places in the female mold... the fabric did not get pressed firmly down into that little recess in the rush to stay ahead of the 20 minute cure time for poly resin. (No, I have not built frp boats, but have watched workmen doing it at a factory quite a few years ago.)

As to the cabin sole, if it has a thru-stepped mast, rain water will accumulate in the bilges and can slosh up into the wood sole. If ignored, quite a bit of water can accumulate from a dripping stuffing box, too. From the description of the interior cushions and wood, one could imagine that this is one of the vast numbers of boats left closed up for months at a time. When we bought our boat the foam in all of the cushions was shot thru with black mold bits and mildew -- we laundered the covers three times and had an upholsterer refoam them with hi-density foam and replace all the corroded zipper pulls. Fifteen years later those cushions still look great. Ericson used high quality cloth.

From way up here in the third balcony, I cannot see enough to really help you... but you are getting good advice from other sistership owners and owners of similar-size and design era Ericsons.
And throw in some more pics if you wish.
Gotta say..., the stuffing box, shaft, and coupler looks just like ours did upon purchase!

All the best,
Loren
ps: perhaps dinner at a brew pub might lure Tim into a visit if you decide to persue the purchase! Heck, buy two dinners and have MaineSail visit too...

 

[Gary G]

Check deck hardware

I have a 1983 E28+ and am very pleased with the boat. It's a great sailing boat and is easy to sail with no or limited crew (all the lines on mine are run back to the cockpit). I have two bilge take-ups in two different bilge compartments on my boat also. One is for the electric pump and the other is for the manual pump. Generally my bilges are very dry. You should open up the zippers in the headliner and check all the through-bolted deck hardware (winches, cams, jib track, cleats, pad eyes, etc) for any signs of leaks or loose fittings. Of course the electrical system should also be thoroughly checked as part of your survey. Also, the general condition of the fuel lines and all other hoses on the engine should be evaluated.