Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
No fuse
Check the connections. As I remember there is a shunt across the terminals so the voltage the meter actually sees is very small. Any increase in resistance will reduce the meter reading without affecting the loads being fed. There is no fuse as the current through the meter is only micro amps.
Bad connections will have just as much effect on Tim's Link 20 as on an analog meter.
That said, a battery monitor is good thing to have, but it costs a couple of hundred bucks. Also, for most people monitoring the starting battery is a waste of money. I like toys, too, but not if they will interfere with the booze budget.
Check the connections. As I remember there is a shunt across the terminals so the voltage the meter actually sees is very small. Any increase in resistance will reduce the meter reading without affecting the loads being fed. There is no fuse as the current through the meter is only micro amps.
Bad connections will have just as much effect on Tim's Link 20 as on an analog meter.
That said, a battery monitor is good thing to have, but it costs a couple of hundred bucks. Also, for most people monitoring the starting battery is a waste of money. I like toys, too, but not if they will interfere with the booze budget.
Lawrence B. Lee
Member III
Brian,
You might see some activity when something is happening electrically on the boat. It should move if the bilge pump is on for example. I watched mine for a long time when nothing was really happening on the boat. Result? Nothing. Watch it when some amps are really moving on the boat.
Frankly, I use a Xantrex LinxLite to see what the house batteries are doing. I chose not to connect it to the starter battery because the instrument is more accurate on one bank.
Larry Lee
Savannah GA
Annabel Lee E32-200
You might see some activity when something is happening electrically on the boat. It should move if the bilge pump is on for example. I watched mine for a long time when nothing was really happening on the boat. Result? Nothing. Watch it when some amps are really moving on the boat.
Frankly, I use a Xantrex LinxLite to see what the house batteries are doing. I chose not to connect it to the starter battery because the instrument is more accurate on one bank.
Larry Lee
Savannah GA
Annabel Lee E32-200
Comment
I second the LINK comment from earlier. I love my link10 setup which replaced the ammeter. The factory shunt only allows for measurement of the current going through the panel (at least on the 34) and not anything else (e.g., starting, bilge, charging amps). Mine was pretty cruddy, and probably 'measured' incorrectly anyway after 20 years.
With the Link10 setup (shunt right at the batteries pushing electric ground 'high'), I can see all the electrons... Nice to see and definitely not paranoid (or so I hope)...and the unit fit the old cut-out.
I second the LINK comment from earlier. I love my link10 setup which replaced the ammeter. The factory shunt only allows for measurement of the current going through the panel (at least on the 34) and not anything else (e.g., starting, bilge, charging amps). Mine was pretty cruddy, and probably 'measured' incorrectly anyway after 20 years.
With the Link10 setup (shunt right at the batteries pushing electric ground 'high'), I can see all the electrons... Nice to see and definitely not paranoid (or so I hope)...and the unit fit the old cut-out.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2158&referrerid=28
Here is a pretty good prior thread on this general topic.
FWIW, there probably is a shunt mounted on the breaker buss on the back side of your factory panel, measuring amps for loads thru that panel only.
Regards,
Loren
Here is a pretty good prior thread on this general topic.
FWIW, there probably is a shunt mounted on the breaker buss on the back side of your factory panel, measuring amps for loads thru that panel only.
Regards,
Loren
ammeter test
Does the meter move to the negitive side when you have a load on it? If it doesn't move that's a start. Are your batteries dying on you. You could run a voltage check on the system to see if that increases with the motor running. Yes go for the digital meter, I could show you a nice set up in the area that your at. Does the battery charger effect the meter? Go for the digital to be sure.
Does the meter move to the negitive side when you have a load on it? If it doesn't move that's a start. Are your batteries dying on you. You could run a voltage check on the system to see if that increases with the motor running. Yes go for the digital meter, I could show you a nice set up in the area that your at. Does the battery charger effect the meter? Go for the digital to be sure.
The meter doesn't seem to move at all, no matter what the load. I agree, the Xantrex Link 20 seems like a great answer,,,, except for the price. Since I mostly daysail it's not really an issue except for the fact I like to keep everything working on the boat whether I actually use it or not. I'll check the connections on the backside at some point.
Jon, no, the batteries are not dying on me at all (yet). I need to catch up with you and Arline before you head out. Congrats on the sale of the house!!
Thanks for the input everyone.
Jon, no, the batteries are not dying on me at all (yet). I need to catch up with you and Arline before you head out. Congrats on the sale of the house!!
Thanks for the input everyone.
tenders
Innocent Bystander
Hey Brian, the problem with an ammeter is that in order to measure current it has to be in series, or in line, with everything that's being measured. This means that the electrons it's measuring have to flow through a suitably large wire that runs all the way to the instrument panel before going to the loads they're destined for...so the wiring tends to be relatively large, heavy, and inefficient. This is a lot of metal for not very much information--instrument ammeters are not very precise. All you ultimately can tell is whether the alternator is working or not, and whether there is a small or a large load on the battery.
You can get the same information out of a simple voltmeter, which uses very small wires, plus more information about the current health of the battery(ies). I actually have two voltmeters installed on my boat, one in the cockpit that shows Volts, and one in the cabin which shows percent of charge.
I'd suggest looking carefully at the ammeter wiring and seeing if it can't be removed entirely. You may have to reroute some of the components, but I was able to pull mine out completely in about half an hour. It's possible that a previous owner re-ran the wiring without pulling out the ammeter, which would go a long way towards explaining why yours isn't moving.
You can get the same information out of a simple voltmeter, which uses very small wires, plus more information about the current health of the battery(ies). I actually have two voltmeters installed on my boat, one in the cockpit that shows Volts, and one in the cabin which shows percent of charge.
I'd suggest looking carefully at the ammeter wiring and seeing if it can't be removed entirely. You may have to reroute some of the components, but I was able to pull mine out completely in about half an hour. It's possible that a previous owner re-ran the wiring without pulling out the ammeter, which would go a long way towards explaining why yours isn't moving.
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
Lots of people don't have much use for ammeters, but I strongly disagree. I tested my anchor light yesterday in bright sunlight by looking at the ammeter. Try that with your voltmeter. I suppose I could have waited for dark.
Since we are dealing with the breaker panel ammeter there is no added heavy wire for it.
Since we are dealing with the breaker panel ammeter there is no added heavy wire for it.
tenders
Innocent Bystander
> breaker panel ammeter
That's a little different. I was thinking instrument panel ammeters, located next to the engine controls.
Those kinds of ammeters aren't useless...they just involve a lot of metal for not very much information.
You could probably have tested the light as successfully by noting a small voltage drop when you turned on the switch--and if your anchor light was an LED, neither ammeter nor voltmeter would tell you with certainty whether it was on!
Just sayin'...
That's a little different. I was thinking instrument panel ammeters, located next to the engine controls.
Those kinds of ammeters aren't useless...they just involve a lot of metal for not very much information.
You could probably have tested the light as successfully by noting a small voltage drop when you turned on the switch--and if your anchor light was an LED, neither ammeter nor voltmeter would tell you with certainty whether it was on!
Just sayin'...
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
There are two types of ammeter - series and shunt. These boats (AFAIK) came with series type ammeters, wired in series with the long run of small wire from the alternator. If you did Tom Metzger's project section modification, you effectively bypassed the series ammeter completely with the big wire from the alternator to the positive cable on the back of the starter. Don't expect any relevant info from that ammeter.
Tom, I am surprised you didn't speak up about that. Maybe it has to do with the lack of interference with the booze budget!
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
Keith - Tenders has contact with people in NJ who know me and might want to put out a contract, so I down play my responses. 
I can be a really large PITA with little details, but I try to avoid it. Tenders is correct about the engine panel ammeter, but the problem there is battery charging and the wire being too small. Incidentally, I like the ammeter on that panel because it does show that the glow plugs are working. A Catalina tech magazine published an article doing the same stuff I did around the same time. They replaced the ammeter with a voltmeter IIRC. That would be useful, but very hard to read on my boat because of the mounting position.
PITA time:
BTW, no series ammeters of this type; only internal and external shunt ammeters. The exceptions are meters that read the basic meter movement current, typically 50 micro amps to 1 milliamp. How many eyes glazed over on that one?
In spite of living on a fixed income, the booze budget is doing marginally well this year. Even after I replaced the bulkhead clock battery.
I can be a really large PITA with little details, but I try to avoid it. Tenders is correct about the engine panel ammeter, but the problem there is battery charging and the wire being too small. Incidentally, I like the ammeter on that panel because it does show that the glow plugs are working. A Catalina tech magazine published an article doing the same stuff I did around the same time. They replaced the ammeter with a voltmeter IIRC. That would be useful, but very hard to read on my boat because of the mounting position.
PITA time:
BTW, no series ammeters of this type; only internal and external shunt ammeters. The exceptions are meters that read the basic meter movement current, typically 50 micro amps to 1 milliamp. How many eyes glazed over on that one?
In spite of living on a fixed income, the booze budget is doing marginally well this year. Even after I replaced the bulkhead clock battery.
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
Tom,
Thanks for the explanation. Internal shunt ammeters - I didn't know about those.
I'm glad an economic stimulus package won't be necessary for your booze budget. Same here.
Thanks for the explanation. Internal shunt ammeters - I didn't know about those.
I'm glad an economic stimulus package won't be necessary for your booze budget. Same here.
Akavishon
Member III
Inspired by Loren's work (thread somewhere on this site), I replaced the analog instrument on my control panel with a Victron BMV-600 unit (I believe it was recommended by MaineSail on some forum, maybe sailnet).
The installation was easy, and I'm VERY happy with it!
- Zoran
ps - many thanks to both Loren and MaineSail!
The installation was easy, and I'm VERY happy with it!
- Zoran
ps - many thanks to both Loren and MaineSail!
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Is that you Alan?? Yes, we are loving the boat!! I've made a bunch of little changes, including a teak cockpit floor (you'd love it), new head & hoses last year, new screens for the hatches & companionway (you'd love these also). It's a great boat and we're trying to keep it up as well as you did. How is the T-3800?? A guy in our bay bought a brand new T-4100 last year. It's a beauty. Say hi to Carol.