I have a 1970 E29 with an atomic 4 engine. No matter what I attempt I cannot back up in a straight line. I have spent the past summer on this boat and can't get the hang of this maneuver...which makes getting out of my slip extremely exciting...BTW I have a 3 blade prop if that matters.
I hear ya
This is the true tell of the E29 owner. I thought it was just me a few years ago who couldn't back his boat up. My wife heckled me and my freinds called me a goof. I then found out a good trick. More speed. It will handle a lot better with more speed passing the rudder. This isn't a good thing in tight quarters but I have a lot of space and increased speed works well for me.
I have heard of people lengthening their rudder. Not for me.
Good luck,
This is the true tell of the E29 owner. I thought it was just me a few years ago who couldn't back his boat up. My wife heckled me and my freinds called me a goof. I then found out a good trick. More speed. It will handle a lot better with more speed passing the rudder. This isn't a good thing in tight quarters but I have a lot of space and increased speed works well for me.
I have heard of people lengthening their rudder. Not for me.
Good luck,
windjunkee
Member III
I have a two blade fixed prop also on an A-4 engine. She pulls to port when backing. Not a problem. The boat is so easy to manuever in the water, when I drop the lines, I push her back and headed in the right direction and then just jump aboard. I have to back right if I don't want to back all the way down the fairway.
But engine-wise, try to keep the rudder straight and give a good, high-rpm blast in reverse to get you moving, even if you're moving sideways as well. Its called "prop walk" and it happens to nearly every boat out there. Once moving, put it in neutral. The "prop walk" will stop and the momentum of the boat will give you steerage so you can now manipulate the rudder to drive you the desired direction.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
But engine-wise, try to keep the rudder straight and give a good, high-rpm blast in reverse to get you moving, even if you're moving sideways as well. Its called "prop walk" and it happens to nearly every boat out there. Once moving, put it in neutral. The "prop walk" will stop and the momentum of the boat will give you steerage so you can now manipulate the rudder to drive you the desired direction.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
Frank Langer
1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I'm also still trying to figure out how to manage prop walk in reverse. I understand giving it a good burst of speed, then neutral to get underway in reverse--but how do you avoid that first good burst of speed making you crash the stern into the dock if the dock is on the port side and the bow going to starboard and hitting the boat docked right beside you on starboard?
Any other docking advice is welcomed!!
Thanks,
Frank
Any other docking advice is welcomed!!
Thanks,
Frank
A thought.
I had some serious backing issues in my E27 this summer, so that I had no helm control to the point that I was drifting in the current.
I realized that the prop was covered in barnacles. I'm in an extremely salty area - Hampton Roads at the mouth of the Chesapeake - and the barnacles pile on quickly. That said, a quick jump into the water with a paint scraper and my diving mask, and we were on our way. The local shops here say that as a rule of thumb they clean theirs about 1-2x every summer.
Have you looked at the 3-blade prop? Very nice performance.
If you can find a quiet little cove somewhere, head to it and play around for a while. Its amazing how much it helps to just go around in figure-eights and play with the helm while no one is around!
I had some serious backing issues in my E27 this summer, so that I had no helm control to the point that I was drifting in the current.
I realized that the prop was covered in barnacles. I'm in an extremely salty area - Hampton Roads at the mouth of the Chesapeake - and the barnacles pile on quickly. That said, a quick jump into the water with a paint scraper and my diving mask, and we were on our way. The local shops here say that as a rule of thumb they clean theirs about 1-2x every summer.
Have you looked at the 3-blade prop? Very nice performance.
If you can find a quiet little cove somewhere, head to it and play around for a while. Its amazing how much it helps to just go around in figure-eights and play with the helm while no one is around!
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Any time the prop is spinning, you are going to have excessive prop walk.
One thing you can do (if you plan in advance) is burst some power in reverse to get the boat moving, then disengage the clutch. If you have more than .7 Knots of reverse speed, the rudder responds fairly accurately.
Good Luck;
Steve
One thing you can do (if you plan in advance) is burst some power in reverse to get the boat moving, then disengage the clutch. If you have more than .7 Knots of reverse speed, the rudder responds fairly accurately.
Good Luck;
Steve
Kim Schoedel
Member III
I have the 2 Blade Max Prop. Yep, excessive prop walk to port in reverse.
If I have a lot of cross wind while backing out of the slip, we need to back out fairly fast so the bow doesn't swing over too much. I goose it pretty good to get her going for rudder control then back off the throttle quickly. Then the prop walk diminishes.
If there is not a lot of cross wind, then I just put it reverse at an idle to get it started and in and out of reverse if nessasary, so we can slowly creep backwards.
We have a combo step/dock box just at the port gate so sometimes we just push off to starboard with a foot to counter act the prop walk.
When flying solo, I will just extend the boat hook and push the stern off to starboard.
If I have a lot of cross wind while backing out of the slip, we need to back out fairly fast so the bow doesn't swing over too much. I goose it pretty good to get her going for rudder control then back off the throttle quickly. Then the prop walk diminishes.
If there is not a lot of cross wind, then I just put it reverse at an idle to get it started and in and out of reverse if nessasary, so we can slowly creep backwards.
We have a combo step/dock box just at the port gate so sometimes we just push off to starboard with a foot to counter act the prop walk.
When flying solo, I will just extend the boat hook and push the stern off to starboard.
Reverse...
The comment about the Max (feathering) prop and "prop walk" is interesting. One of the big reasons we converted to a feathering prop a decade ago was reduce/eliminate prop walk to port in reverse with our Universal M25XP and a (factory stock) two blade fixed prop.
Of course the other reason was more speed under sail in light air -- and we have a lot of light air around here.
Prop walk in reverse, expecially the worst part when just starting to back up, was almost eliminated. It's still there but, by the time we are half a length back, I have full rudder control. The change in handling was immediate, and I still remember how delighted I was with the result, after spending just shy of $1K to buy the two blade Martec Autostream featherer.
I am sorry to hear that another owner still has significant reverse hassles even with a featherer. Another Ericson friend put a MaxProp featherer on his boat to (mostly) cure reversing problems, and has remained pleased with the result for the last decade.
Just another .01 worth,
Loren in PDX
The comment about the Max (feathering) prop and "prop walk" is interesting. One of the big reasons we converted to a feathering prop a decade ago was reduce/eliminate prop walk to port in reverse with our Universal M25XP and a (factory stock) two blade fixed prop.
Of course the other reason was more speed under sail in light air -- and we have a lot of light air around here.
Prop walk in reverse, expecially the worst part when just starting to back up, was almost eliminated. It's still there but, by the time we are half a length back, I have full rudder control. The change in handling was immediate, and I still remember how delighted I was with the result, after spending just shy of $1K to buy the two blade Martec Autostream featherer.
I am sorry to hear that another owner still has significant reverse hassles even with a featherer. Another Ericson friend put a MaxProp featherer on his boat to (mostly) cure reversing problems, and has remained pleased with the result for the last decade.
Just another .01 worth,
Loren in PDX
Kim Schoedel
Member III
Loren,
Windfall came with the Max. I have no idea how the boat handled in reverse with the stock prop. I may have used the word excessive in error. However, it does walk to port in reverse when I "power up". On the bright side though, when paralell parking to port, it comes in quite handy. Makes me look like I know what I am doing.
Windfall came with the Max. I have no idea how the boat handled in reverse with the stock prop. I may have used the word excessive in error. However, it does walk to port in reverse when I "power up". On the bright side though, when paralell parking to port, it comes in quite handy. Makes me look like I know what I am doing.
paul culver
Member III
I have the two bladed prop with a lot of walk to port. I back the boat by hand at an angle that offsets the stern to starboard. Then I get on and hit reverse in idle speed. Seems to do the trick. Sorry to hear that you have this problem with a three blade prop because I thought that was going to be the cure.
--Paul
E-29 "Bear"
--Paul
E-29 "Bear"
Joe Benedict
Member II
I feel your pain. I replaced my stock prop with an Indigo 3 blade. It reduces prop walk and actually gives you a reverse. It is nowhere near as expensive as the feathering type but will give you a much improved performance - just think ahead (it isn't a power boat) and use the walk to your advantage. Several people who have the folding type (more speed?) say there are some tense moments when you reverse the engine and the prop is unfolding - the first few tries usually result in a battle with a dock. According to my GPS and knotlog you need about one knot of headway for the rudder to actually work.
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
one prop = prop walk
I have found with my E29 with a two blade prop and my MasterCraft with a three blade prop that prop walk is strong. I hit the throttle for just a second and then ease to low throttle. If you over steer, the rudder looses side area and will be less effective. Steer as little as possible and when the boat swings to starboard you can throttle up as needed. If you over steer you just stall the rudder and it is no longer effective. When I started with the E29 I couldn’t back it into a cove but now I can back into the slip.
Find a cove and place a buoy with a pole or something high enough to be seen and practice backing to it and beside it. Your friends will thing you are drunk if they see you, so have a few and confirm their thoughts. Unless you have two props that counter-rotate you will have a degree of prop walk.
I have found with my E29 with a two blade prop and my MasterCraft with a three blade prop that prop walk is strong. I hit the throttle for just a second and then ease to low throttle. If you over steer, the rudder looses side area and will be less effective. Steer as little as possible and when the boat swings to starboard you can throttle up as needed. If you over steer you just stall the rudder and it is no longer effective. When I started with the E29 I couldn’t back it into a cove but now I can back into the slip.
Find a cove and place a buoy with a pole or something high enough to be seen and practice backing to it and beside it. Your friends will thing you are drunk if they see you, so have a few and confirm their thoughts. Unless you have two props that counter-rotate you will have a degree of prop walk.
pmarsha3
Member II
Most single inboard engine power boats have extremely small rudders. The proper way to steer in reverse is to bump the boat starboard or port by using the forward gear. Once the vessel is pointed in the right direction you resume reverse. This bumping maneuver can be performed as many times as required.
I would add that once you know the degree of prop walk in reverse, you can plan on it. It's always there, and has uses.
What you can't do, in confined spaces, is stop the turning with rudder once "overturning" begins. That's what freaks people out, and makes reverse seem diabolical.
Try this: with the boat stopped, learn to turn it 360 degrees, in place, using bursts of forward and reverse.
In reverse, keep helm centered--let burst of prop walk turn you.
Then shift to forward, and spin the rudder hard over--let burst of forward turn you.
Then center rudder, let prop walk work.
The boat will perform a series of "K-turns", moving forward and backward only a foot or two.
The only thing that brings peace of mind when backing up in tight spaces is knowing you can maneuver just as you want to, and stop any undesired turn or approaching collision.
When practicing this stuff, try big bursts of power. You may be surprised at the predictable effect.
Since there is a lot of turning of the wheel and shift and throttle changes, it takes confidence. It isn't subtle.
But once familiar, it's easy.
What you can't do, in confined spaces, is stop the turning with rudder once "overturning" begins. That's what freaks people out, and makes reverse seem diabolical.
Try this: with the boat stopped, learn to turn it 360 degrees, in place, using bursts of forward and reverse.
In reverse, keep helm centered--let burst of prop walk turn you.
Then shift to forward, and spin the rudder hard over--let burst of forward turn you.
Then center rudder, let prop walk work.
The boat will perform a series of "K-turns", moving forward and backward only a foot or two.
The only thing that brings peace of mind when backing up in tight spaces is knowing you can maneuver just as you want to, and stop any undesired turn or approaching collision.
When practicing this stuff, try big bursts of power. You may be surprised at the predictable effect.
Since there is a lot of turning of the wheel and shift and throttle changes, it takes confidence. It isn't subtle.
But once familiar, it's easy.
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Water Flow
A good friend of mine turned me on to a method that works for me. First without water flow across the rudder you have no steerage.
So I drop all my dock lines except the stern and bow lines. I then put the boat in reverse while tied still. The goal is to create a temporary current across the rudder. I usually leave in gear for 5 minutes or so. I put the tranny in neutral(the water will continue to move across the rudder) and drop the lines. With the water flowing across the rudder, the moment it starts backwards when its put in reverse you have steerage due to the flow across the rudder. I have been using this method for months now and the only time it is an issue is if the wind won't cooperate (which is more then not) and when the wind causes an issue I use a cheater line on the starboard side to ensure i keep it going back in a somewhat organized manner.
It is worth a try and might work for you.
Darrel
35-3 #154
s/v/ Sunflower
A good friend of mine turned me on to a method that works for me. First without water flow across the rudder you have no steerage.
So I drop all my dock lines except the stern and bow lines. I then put the boat in reverse while tied still. The goal is to create a temporary current across the rudder. I usually leave in gear for 5 minutes or so. I put the tranny in neutral(the water will continue to move across the rudder) and drop the lines. With the water flowing across the rudder, the moment it starts backwards when its put in reverse you have steerage due to the flow across the rudder. I have been using this method for months now and the only time it is an issue is if the wind won't cooperate (which is more then not) and when the wind causes an issue I use a cheater line on the starboard side to ensure i keep it going back in a somewhat organized manner.
It is worth a try and might work for you.
Darrel
35-3 #154
s/v/ Sunflower
Any particular reason for bringing up a >10 year old thread? I'm not sure what the magic speed is at which I get reverse steerage. As others have said, I mostly back into the slip using prop-walk and short bursts of forward to correct. But if the wind is pushing the bow around, all bets are off.
Sometimes I've succeeded in backing in under sail, but this tends to backfire if there is any crosswind.
Sometimes I've succeeded in backing in under sail, but this tends to backfire if there is any crosswind.
I'm not sure why the thread is revived, but I definitely appreciate the discussion. I wanted to add to Toddster's "crosswind all bets off point." You can add to that "if crowds are watching" in my case. The number of people milling around is directly related to the difficulty I have backing out of my slip.
But on a serious note, I have sought info here from the experts. And it has helped. In particular, I bit the bullet, as it were, and got a properly sized prop for my engine. 3 blade 11 inch, 14 pitch. With a sailing buddy (and experienced bluewater sailor) we ran my e27 through the motions on a calm morning. I learned a lot about simple ways to verify what the prop and engine were putting out (rpms to kts etc). Carefully logging data. And the prop maxed out right where it should.
All that is to say that the prop made a huge difference in all aspects, including reverse. It's also awesome to cruise at 5.5 kts rather to maxing out the rpms at 2.5 kts. But Southpaw still acts like a wiffle ball in reverse in a tight space like my fairway. In the relative calm of the Hampton River I can get moving relatively straight in reverse but it takes me many meters to stop overcorrecting. Spring will be dedicated to minimizing my user error coefficient while under power and in reverse.
But on a serious note, I have sought info here from the experts. And it has helped. In particular, I bit the bullet, as it were, and got a properly sized prop for my engine. 3 blade 11 inch, 14 pitch. With a sailing buddy (and experienced bluewater sailor) we ran my e27 through the motions on a calm morning. I learned a lot about simple ways to verify what the prop and engine were putting out (rpms to kts etc). Carefully logging data. And the prop maxed out right where it should.
All that is to say that the prop made a huge difference in all aspects, including reverse. It's also awesome to cruise at 5.5 kts rather to maxing out the rpms at 2.5 kts. But Southpaw still acts like a wiffle ball in reverse in a tight space like my fairway. In the relative calm of the Hampton River I can get moving relatively straight in reverse but it takes me many meters to stop overcorrecting. Spring will be dedicated to minimizing my user error coefficient while under power and in reverse.