Cabin Sole Replacement - Teak & Holly Marine Ply Color

[william.haas]

I am taking on the much discussed cabin sole replacement project on my 1990 Ericson 28. I hope that those of you who have recently completed this project can comment on the color of the teak and holly. Attached are images of the new teak and holly marine ply that I have sourced (from Crowleys for those of you around Chicago) and the teak and holly in comparison to the original bilge covers. I have also attached a few images of Danu's cabin so you understand the color/stain of the existing sole and other wood features. Finally, because it seems to often come up I have included a few pictures of the pan under the sole (no glue, three pieces came out as perfectly useable templates - I am aware of how fortunate I am in this regard).

Granted, after 30+ years I am certain that there has been some level of sun discoloration but the difference to me is quite stark and I am not certain it will look great when finished. I had actually hoped to sand the bilge covers and reuse them because they are in good shape - but I think now that approach will not work out given the difference in coloring.

So now that you have the background here are my initial questions... (1) Did you encounter similar differences in color when you took on your sole replacement project? (2) Did the process of sealing and varnishing the teak and holly brighten the color and make it more red? (3) Did you have any challenges with modern teak and holly ply being slightly thinner than the originals on your boat? (4) @JSM , where did you procure your teak and holly from as well as the pull rings in your bilge covers?

Any thoughts, guidance, etc. would be most appreciated.

 

[Christian Williams]

I'd at least try a small test varnish. Teak is browner than, say, mahogany, and varnish changes its tone.

Even so, matching the factory tone is pretty hard after many years.

 

[bigd14]

That teak and holly plywood does look quite dark compared to the"normal" more golden teak color I am used to seeing. Was it stained darker or just a really dark shade of teak?

I would be inclined to return the sheet of plywood and source one that is closer in appearance to the remainder of the teak in the boat.

Edit- Photo of the teak and holly plywood I sourced. No stain, just a couple coats of polyurethane.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Bill,

Were you able to pick the sheet out for yourself? If so you could bring one of the bilge covers to the yard and see if there is a sheet that is closer to your existing color. My guess would be that most if not all of the stock they have is the same color as they likely buy units of stock once product gets low. I would also check to see if they have damaged pieces that might be old stock from a different lot. Did you try wetting a corner to see what that looks like?

 

[Loren Beach]

When we refinished our teak and holly sole pieces, they were very dark with old oil and dirt. I had them all "dipped" at local furniture restoration place. With multiple coats of varnish they so have nice natural/golden color.
Over the years they have changed some due to sunlight thru the ports, but they have only darkened a little.
Maybe it's just me, but those new panels in the first post look like walnut. (?)

 

[JSM]

@JSM , where did you procure your teak and holly from as well as the pull rings in your bilge covers?

Hi Bill
I purchased two sheets of 3/4" teak and holly from L.L Johnson Lumber / Johnson's Workbench. They are located in Michigan but have a store in South Bend In. and trucked the sheets up to South Bend for me. Total cost was around $550 for two sheets. I believe the color was similar to what you have. I treated the sheets with Smith's Penetrating Epoxy on both sides and then put on 3 or 4 coats of Verithane oil based polyurethane floor finish. The sole has been in place for four seasons now and the finish has held up great.
The pull rings are bronze flange bearings that I found by accident while searching for plastic pull rings at the hardware store (Crafty Beaver on Lawrence Av.).

Plywood: Cabinet and Marine Grade

We offer a wide selection of cabinet, furniture and marine grade plywood

theworkbench.com

 

[Martin King]

Well, it might take pawing through a couple of pallets of the stuff to find something you really like. That's been my experience and given the price of the stuff, you should make yourself happy about the material choice-at least that's my way of thinking. Regarding trying to match your old access panels, well it's not likely that the lines will match exactly. You really should plan on making those from the new stock for an exact grain and color match.

 

[william.haas]

Thanks all for your comments and support. New panels it will be. There are some great manufacturing notations on the undersides in marker that I will also recreate (with proper updates). I try to stay true to the original boat nuances as it makes sense.

A wetness check and John’s comment have me pretty confident that the stock I procured will turn out nice when finished.

I have another minor question requiring armchair support that I will post in a new thread to keep things organized. The preview response… how did the delamination occur at the main piece/bow piece near the shower and mast occur in the first place? Hold your theories until the new post… the background information might change your response.

Again, thanks all (and other comments still very welcome).

 

[Loren Beach]

Replacement of Cabin Sole [Master Thread]

sole reward Geoff Great looking job on your sole!! I've been rereading the posts on this and thought I'd add a couple things. First, the question of glueing. I've sailed Escapade 2 seasons now with the sole screwed down and have not had anything loosen up or feel in any way unsecure. Don't...

ericsonyachts.org

Notice the color of our sole pieces in reply 72. They have darkened a bit over the years, but are still quite golden.

 

[Christian Williams]

how did the delamination occur at the main piece/bow piece near the shower and mast

On my boat the head sole was delaminated by a long-time hidden leak of the Qest (brand name) fittings under the vanity sink. And in that area typical mast leaks of rain are also a common culprit. Water that gets into the TAFG tabbing sumps under the permanent floorboards has nowhere to drain.

I'm not sure the factory used marine ply for the sole, and even if they did 10 years of wet can ruin it.

 

[Joliba]

I also bought a sheet of 3/4” teak and holly plywood from L L Johnson Lumber / Johnson’s Workbench sent from their Michigan store to South Bend, Indiana where I picked it up. I am attaching a photo of how it looks pre-varnish and anther photo of panels over the bilge at the mast after varnish using Epiphanes. The rest of the adjacent cabin sole is the original Ericson teak and holly finish.

 

[Christian Williams]

Anyone have a source for teak and holly 3/4" plywood in California?

Shipping 4x8 sheets from elsewhere is very expensive.

 

[Martin King]

Yep, even Weber plywood would have to order it. You are looking at $400-500 per sheet!

 

[Christian Williams]

Plus $1000 shipping for three sheets from Noah's in FLorida and the veneer is only 1 mill thick. I have ordered a sample of vinyl T&H, see what that's like.

Martin, I called Weber and actually I can pick up the ply in Tustin--no shipping. As you say, probably about $500 each. I'll update when the actual quote comes in.

Update: Well, ugh. They can only provide 1/2" thick--and it's $700 per. The E38 used 3/4", I'll have to see if 1/2" could work. All the vertical trim pieces would have gaps, but maybe I could solve that with inserts.

 

[Frank Langer]

Plus $1000 shipping for three sheets from Noah's in FLorida and the veneer is only 1 mill thick. I have ordered a sample of vinyl T&H, see what that's like.

Martin, I called Weber and actually I can pick up the ply in Tustin--no shipping. As you say, probably about $500 each. I'll update when the actual quote comes in.

Update: Well, ugh. They can only provide 1/2" thick--and it's $700 per. The E38 used 3/4", I'll have to see if 1/2" could work. All the vertical trim pieces would have gaps, but maybe I could solve that with inserts.

Creative use of various size wood mouldings, like quarter round pine stained with teak stain, can look like original build, very professional, if there is a small gap due to the thinner cabin sole.
Frank

 

[Martin King]

Plus $1000 shipping for three sheets from Noah's in FLorida and the veneer is only 1 mill thick. I have ordered a sample of vinyl T&H, see what that's like.

Martin, I called Weber and actually I can pick up the ply in Tustin--no shipping. As you say, probably about $500 each. I'll update when the actual quote comes in.

Update: Well, ugh. They can only provide 1/2" thick--and it's $700 per. The E38 used 3/4", I'll have to see if 1/2" could work. All the vertical trim pieces would have gaps, but maybe I could solve that with inserts.

Well, you could make up the difference with 1/4 inch ply glued on the back side if you can't find the 3/4 inch but if it was me, I would just plan on redoing all the base trim anyway. So what if it's lower by 1/4"?

Guess I'll be sticking with the carpeting I got on my boat. It can be easily replaced for about $400 and I don't have to get out any tools or varnish cans.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I have ordered a sample of vinyl T&H, see what that's like.

I went with Lonseal on my boat and have been happy with it. If you do decide to go that route I'll mention a few tricks to working with it.

Captain's Locker in Long Beach is a good source for this.

 

[ConchyDug]

Scandinavian Birch is a worthy substitute? It's available in multiple grades and is used for furniture, cabinetry, home building, even skateboards. It's a lot more common and easier to source.

 

[Christian Williams]

Yes indeed. I can get lots of suitable 3/4" ply veneers, including teak. That might look fine.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Yes indeed. I can get lots of suitable 3/4" ply veneers, including teak. That might look fine.

Are you looking to replace the entire sole, or just in spots? In laminatining 1/2" marine ply with T&H I found it tricky to get the right consistency of epoxy and weighing down large panels. If I knew then what I know now, and had the option of buying complete 3/4" T&H, I'd do that for sure.