Cockpit drains with check-balls

[Jerry VB]

On my '89 E32-3 there are two cockpit drains that go to a through hull under the sink that is below the waterline (with a seacock) and two that go directly to a through hull each with no seacocks. The latter two drains are in the corners of the cockpit. This is common on the Ericsons of that vintage and hull style.

If I close the seacock under the sink and it rains, I come back to the boat to find standing water in the cockpit. The "direct - above water" drains are not draining. That makes me very unhappy because I don't like leaving seacocks open.

This past weekend I dug into the issue. It looks like the direct cockpit drains (in the corners of the cockpit) are Perko "Cockpit Scupper 0142" (1.5" hose connection - the picture on the Perko site is the 1" version).

Since I did not have a spanner style deck key (in fact I did not know that was what I needed), I made a low budget spanner wrench:


The drain unscrewed with no fuss. Inside I found a rubber check ball. On one drain it was still stuck shut; on the other, it must have dislodged at some point. The rubber check balls are one of those things that work really well in your mind but less well in real life... especially after 30 years of exposure.

This is the "unstuck" check ball:


It is difficult or impossible to remove them nondestructively since they "pop" in and there isn't a good way to push them back out. Theoretically I could have removed the hose and pushed it out from the back side, but I spent the previous weekend in the aft lazerette disconnecting one hose to verify the hose wasn't clogged. I had no intention of spending another weekend down there.

Since I was very unhappy with the balls already, I stabbed them with a 90 degree hose remove tool (Home Depot) and yanked them out from the top.


What the drains look like after their balls have been removed:


The balls are 1.6" in diameter:


We went sailing after the ballectomy. It was pretty calm with ~1 foot waves. A little water splooshed up when a wave hit just right but the water went right back down the drain. No significant water in the cockpit due to the missing balls.

It turns out the check balls are available as replacement parts (e.g. from West Marine). I ordered two and will update this entry with my evaluation after sailing without and with the balls a few times.

 

[bigd14]

I have a similar, but self-imposed issue. I installed these after re-doing the cockpit drains to eliminate the T connection to the sink they hull (only two in my case). The drains are now very slow. Did you remove the balls? Or did freeing them up and cleaning out gunk improve the situation?

 

[Jerry VB]

I have a similar, but self-imposed issue. I installed these after re-doing the cockpit drains to eliminate the T connection to the sink they hull (only two in my case). The drains are now very slow. Did you remove the balls? Or did freeing them up and cleaning out gunk improve the situation?

I removed the balls and have not replaced them (yet). The drains work EXCELLENTLY now. The balls are a major constriction in what should be a 1.5" diameter straight shot out of the boat - there is maybe a 1/8" gap between the balls and the sides and top of the drain where the balls are captured.

My concern is that in conditions with a stiff wind and higher waves the hull/wave action will push water up the drain. Last weekend it was ~8kts of wind and 1' waves so our hull wasn't "squatting" much in the stern and the waves weren't pushing much water up the drains. Under those conditions I'm happy to leave the balls out.

I need to sail in more robust conditions to evaluate how much water gets pushed into the cockpit. Right now I'm very pleased to not have the balls and associated problems.

 

[bigd14]

Thanks! I didn’t see the rest of your first post after the second photo for some reason…

 

[Jerry VB]

Thanks! I didn’t see the rest of your first post after the second photo for some reason…

My bad; I inadvertently posted it half way through and then had to edit it to finish the posting.

 

[Loren Beach]

This has been mentioned in the past, and I dimly recall that members were removing those balls due to the restriction in the drain.
I found one thread, and there may be others.

Cockpit Drain Check Valves

I still have the original cockpit drain check valves in my boat. I'd like to remove the check valves to allow them to drain faster and because they tend to get stuck in the closed position. I know that I read about doing this, but a search for the thread has not been successful. What is the...

ericsonyachts.org

No way to know now, but that might have been an option, way down on the order form.

The O-34 was not built out with this restrictive type of drain fitting, I should note. We have had small splashes of water come up thru, when surfing downwind in heavy air. Nothing really bothersome, tho. Entertaining, actually.
I would question whether your boat would still meet the minimum drain times required for Category One approval with those parts in place. A boarding sea would put somewhere north of 50 gallons of water up to and around your knees, and you would want all the drain exits to work really really well.

 

[Kenneth K]

On my 32-3, the outer scuppers have no check valves but there is a Marelon ball valve screwed on to the through hull. Presumably, on a long tack you could shut off the valve if you had water coming in while heeling. I've never closed the ball valve on these outer (above waterline) scuppers.

 

[bigd14]

Ken do your scupper drain lines cross to the opposing thru hull?

 

[Kenneth K]

Ken do your scupper drain lines cross to the opposing thru hull?

No, mine don't cross but on many boats they apparently do.

 

[Christian Williams]

FWIW, on the 32-3 the cockpit drain hoses were crossed--and I stlll got water under my foot when close hauled and heeled.

The 381 had the center drains crossed with long hoses that wrapped around the rudder tube. This presumably to stop getting the cockpit wet when the drain outlets under the counter are submerged.



When installing a wind vane, I substituted straight hoses direct to those drains. In 5,000 miles of heavy weather the cockpit never got wet through siphoning.



My outer cockpit drains--the ones that do the work when sailing, or when washing the boat--go to a through-hull deep in the bilge. They never siphon. (It's an installation picture, so the hose clamps aren't yet fully tightened).

I'm one who doesn't close through-hulls when leaving the boat, so those drains are always open.

 

[Filkee]

On my 32-3, the outer scuppers have no check valves but there is a Marelon ball valve screwed on to the through hull. Presumably, on a long tack you could shut off the valve if you had water coming in while heeling. I've never closed the ball valve on these outer (above waterline) scuppers.

When I'm hard over the water comes uncomfortably close to flooding my control panel. I don't like it. But getting to the valve never feels like an option in that moment.

 

[Loren Beach]

When I'm hard over the water comes uncomfortably close to flooding my control panel. I don't like it. But getting to the valve never feels like an option in that moment.

I have driven an E-33RH to weather a number of times and when fully "rail down" the water does come in to the low point in the T-shape cockpit footwell. Never over an inch, tho.
Are your drain hoses "crossed"?

 

[Jerry VB]

My concern is that in conditions with a stiff wind and higher waves the hull/wave action will push water up the drain. Last weekend it was ~8kts of wind and 1' waves so our hull wasn't "squatting" much in the stern and the waves weren't pushing much water up the drains. Under those conditions I'm happy to leave the balls out.

I need to sail in more robust conditions to evaluate how much water gets pushed into the cockpit. Right now I'm very pleased to not have the balls and associated problems.

Update on the check-balls: recently we were sailing in more wind and waves. In those conditions the waves actively pushed water into the cockpit so I popped the new balls into the cockpit drains. This prevented waves from causing water to surge into the cockpit and threatening to inundate the motor instrument panel.

Even with the new balls, I found they tend to stick "shut" so I need to add "poke the balls" to my "leaving the boat" checklist so that rain water can drain out the direct cockpit drains. (I prefer to close all the through-hulls, including the cockpit drain through-hull, when we are not on the boat.)

 

[goldenstate]

Update on the check-balls: recently we were sailing in more wind and waves. In those conditions the waves actively pushed water into the cockpit so I popped the new balls into the cockpit drains. This prevented waves from causing water to surge into the cockpit and threatening to inundate the motor instrument panel.

Even with the new balls, I found they tend to stick "shut" so I need to add "poke the balls" to my "leaving the boat" checklist so that rain water can drain out the direct cockpit drains. (I prefer to close all the through-hulls, including the cockpit drain through-hull, when we are not on the boat.)

Mmmmhmmm. I made an entire video about poking scupper balls. Mostly for the cheap jokes:

 

[bsangs]

I haven't played with my scupper balls, but have always been puzzled by these things. Take the two outer ones for instance, that cross and lead to a thru hull under the galley sink. While rinsing the boat one day, I decided to check out how these worked. I found when I blasted hose water into one of them, it eventually came bubbling out the other side. (Not so the two middle scuppers.) Thought that was very odd. They appear to drain perfectly fine, though I haven't been swamped by a following wave yet. Also, the fact these two drain under the waterline, are they not always filled with water when the seacock is open? As for the two middle ones, the hose always seems to have a little water in it. Again, they drain perfectly fine, but I don't understand why they don't seem to drain completely.

 

[Christian Williams]

when I blasted hose water into one of them, it eventually came bubbling out the other side.

If your outer cockpit drain hoses look like mine, my guess is the powerful jet of garden-hose water just can't make the 90-degree turn at the "T". Whereas a gravity flow can.



And yes, I suppose the low part of the hose on that thru-hull, and the sink drain thru-hull too, have sea water in them, being below the waterline.

Note: the upper hoses in the photo, from the central cockpit drains, are no longer crossed as shown here. I revised them to straight runs to their thru-hulls. I don't know why anybody would cross those anyhow, insofar as they're midships, and not affected by heel.

 

[bsangs]

when I blasted hose water into one of them, it eventually came bubbling out the other side.

If your outer cockpit drain hoses look like mine, my guess is the powerful jet of garden-hose water just can't make the 90-degree turn at the "T". Whereas a gravity flow can.

View attachment 47524

And yes, I suppose the low part of the hose on that thru-hull, and the sink drain thru-hull too, have sea water in them, being below the waterline.

Makes sense. And yes, they do look like that.

 

[Filkee]

I have driven an E-33RH to weather a number of times and when fully "rail down" the water does come in to the low point in the T-shape cockpit footwell. Never over an inch, tho.
Are your drain hoses "crossed"?

I’m assuming they aren’t but now you’ve given me something else to contemplate next Tim I go down in the hole

 

[Bolo]

Mmmmhmmm. I made an entire video about poking scupper balls. Mostly for the cheap jokes:

Your video reminded me that I need to set up and appointment with my urologist. . (OK, enough cheap jokes.)

 

[Filkee]

I guess I will have to ask my doctor which balls are right for me. It would be nice to look down and not see the key underwater.