converting from wire-rope halyard to all-rope

[markalan]

5/16 Halyard size and Rope Clutches for Olson 34

Loren,
I know this is an old topic. What I need to know is on the Olson do the stock rope clutches adequately hold the 5/16 T-900 or equivalent? And are you happy with the 5/16 for both main and jib halyards?
Thanks,
Mark

When I changed over, I went to 5/16 T-900 hi tech braid. I might have gone with the 3/8, but that was just a tad too fat for the sheaves at the masthead.
I have no problem with the smaller line, but on windy days always wear gloves anyway.

Another case of "more than one right answer"....


Loren[/QUO

 

[Loren Beach]

Loren,
I know this is an old topic. What I need to know is on the Olson do the stock rope clutches adequately hold the 5/16 T-900 or equivalent? And are you happy with the 5/16 for both main and jib halyards?
Thanks,
Mark

Thanks for asking, and yup I like them as much as ever. The factory clutches, installed by EY in 1988, are still holding fine. i.e. no slippage.
With the passage of the years, there are probably other competitors for the T-900 nowadays. But the core idea (pun alert) remains the same.
The 5/16 inch is a workable compromise for our boat, and I would not try anything any smaller in those vintage clutches.

An aside: the fiber-reinforced plastic handles on those OEM clutches are a weak point. I friend of mine with an '86 E-38 replaced all of his when someone leaned on one of the sun-faded handles when it was in the open(up) position and snapped it off. Over the decades, UV is not kind to the material.

 

[Christian Williams]

Last week I had a rigger friend (Jerome Sammarcelli) replace the OE wire-to-rope genoa halyard. I went with his suggestion, as he does a lot of offshore:

To replace the old wire halyard, I suggest the Marlow Ropes GP78. Extremely good line. I have the 3/8” in stock in dark green, lime and orange. Each color is marked with black technora flecks. The core is perfect for high load halyards (main, Genoa) and the the blended cover (polyester / technora) holds a lot better in clutches or jammers. Price is $5.15 per foot. As an offshore sailor, I will be happy to give you a 15% discount on the halyard.

I felt 3/8 (10 mm) was a bit small, but in fact it makes my 7/16 main halyard look clunky big.

I had as original gear Swedish Easylock jammers, a double and a triple, and one Spinlock double.

I replaced them all with new Lewmar clutches. Old jammers damage the exotic new rope halyards.

 

[markalan]

Thanks Loren,
That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Hope you had a great New Years!
Mark

Thanks for asking, and yup I like them as much as ever. The factory clutches, installed by EY in 1988, are still holding fine. i.e. no slippage.
With the passage of the years, there are probably other competitors for the T-900 nowadays. But the core idea (pun alert) remains the same.
The 5/16 inch is a workable compromise for our boat, and I would not try anything any smaller in those vintage clutches.

An aside: the fiber-reinforced plastic handles on those OEM clutches are a weak point. I friend of mine with an '86 E-38 replaced all of his when someone leaned on one of the sun-faded handles when it was in the open(up) position and snapped it off. Over the decades, UV is not kind to the material.

 

[markalan]

Thanks Christian,
Appreciate your feedback.
Cheers to the New Year!
Mark

Last week I had a rigger friend (Jerome Sammarcelli) replace the OE wire-to-rope genoa halyard. I went with his suggestion, as he does a lot of offshore:

To replace the old wire halyard, I suggest the Marlow Ropes GP78. Extremely good line. I have the 3/8” in stock in dark green, lime and orange. Each color is marked with black technora flecks. The core is perfect for high load halyards (main, Genoa) and the the blended cover (polyester / technora) holds a lot better in clutches or jammers. Price is $5.15 per foot. As an offshore sailor, I will be happy to give you a 15% discount on the halyard.

I felt 3/8 (10 mm) was a bit small, but in fact it makes my 7/16 main halyard look clunky big.

I had as original gear Swedish Easylock jammers, a double and a triple, and one Spinlock double.

I replaced them all with new Lewmar clutches. Old jammers damage the exotic new rope halyards.

 

[bgary]

I've been switching to 5/16" halyards over time (1 left to do, probably this year). Have been using New England "VPC" which, in 5/16", is stronger than the 3/8" Samson XLS Extra-T it is replacing. It's a polyester cover over a braided Vectran core, feels good in the hands, holds fine in the original halyard stoppers.

$5.15 per foot.

Yikes!

_/)_

 

[markalan]

This is very helpful info.
I am definitely going with a 5/16" higher end rope. There's so many high tech options its mind boggling.

This is something I found on line: Brand New piece of Super-Strong, Super-Low Stretch Premium NovaBraid Argus brand 5/16" diameter x 100 ft Blue/Silver Double Braid Spectra/Polyester Sail Rigging Line. - NovaTech Argus is stronger, lighter and lower stretch than Polyester double braids, Argus features a blended core of UHMPE Spectra and UV stalilized MFP along with an extremely firm and durable 16 carrier Polyester cover. Argus bridges the gap between Polyester and ultra high performance line. Average Strength is 3,500 lbs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Low-...ope-Line-5-16-x-100-Blue-Silver-/192324183386

Let me know what you think about this line.

Thanks.
Mark

I've been switching to 5/16" halyards over time (1 left to do, probably this year). Have been using New England "VPC" which, in 5/16", is stronger than the 3/8" Samson XLS Extra-T it is replacing. It's a polyester cover over a braided Vectran core, feels good in the hands, holds fine in the original halyard stoppers.



Yikes!

_/)_

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Check out New England Ropes VPC 10MM. We used this for all 3 halyards on Glory Days. I don't know how to tell how good it is, but there is very little wear on the main halyard after 5 years, feels good to the hand, and works in the winches and stoppers just fine. It was recommended to me by Mike Sipala of Sipala Spars, who also verified that my original sheaves were good to go.

EDIT - Just read bgary's post, so there you go. 10 mm VPC was under $1.50 a foot in 2013/2014.

 

[bgary]

Brand New piece of Super-Strong, Super-Low Stretch Premium NovaBraid Argus brand 5/16" diameter x 100 ft

Hmmm...

I've never heard of NovaBraid Argus, so can't offer much of an opinion... except "I've never heard of it" puts it near the outer boundary of things I'd consider, IMHO. I tend to stick with the "name brands" (New England Ropes, Samson, Marlow, Yale)

NovaBraid lists it with a breaking strength of 3500 pounds in 5/16".

http://www.novabraid.com/rope/argus/

Plus, 100 feet might be a bit short for a halyard on your Olson 34 (don't know, Loren would know for sure). On my E32-III, 105 feet is about the minimum I need to make it back along the deck to a halyard stopper, with enough left over to get the tail on a winch. 110 feet is better. Plus, if the length of unspliced line is 100 feet to start with, a finished halyard is going to be somewhat shorter than 100' by the time a shackle is spliced on. ymmv.

I buy most of my line from a place called APS (Annapolis Performance Sailing). They have a pretty useful line-selection guide:

http://www.apsltd.com/line-resources#selection

For jib halyards, they list New England Rope "VPC" and Samson "MLX" as the best choices for double-braids with "medium tech" core material.

From my notes, in 5/16" the VPC has a rated breaking strength of 5500 pounds, the MLX is rated at 4500 pounds. The tie-breaker for me, though, was how it felt. I had a halyard made locally with MLX, and I didn't like the way it kinks up. the braid is laid up pretty tight, which makes it feel harder in the hand, and it is fairly stiff to handle, I found the VPC a lot nicer.

Note, too, many places will build a complete halyard for you. APS, for example, has as a "standard item" 5/16" jib/spinnaker halyards, 110' complete with spliced-on shackle, stopper ball, etc.

http://www.apsltd.com/line/pre-spec...specified-sailboat-jib-halyard-line-rope.html

Prices include
-- $168 for complete halyard made from StaSet (the "economical" option)
-- $215 for complete halyard made from VPC (the "middle of the road" option)
-- $301 for complete halyard made from Yale Crystalline (the "premium" option)
... and they frequently have sales this time of year. I recently ordered a VPC halyard during a 25% off sale, which brought the price down to less than the cost of the parts.

West Marine, Defender and others have similar offerings. Defender actually lists pre-made halyards made with NovaBraid Argus but... the spec for 5/16" seems too short.

Probably more info than you wanted, but... there you go.

Bruce

 

[bgary]

10 mm VPC was under $1.50 a foot in 2013/2014.

8mm (5/16") VPC is currently $1.39/foot at West Marine, $1.09/foot at APSltd.com, $1.10/foot at Defender.com...

 

[Tom Metzger]

I looked at the stretch of the Novabraid and it is VERY stretchy compared to VPC at about the same price/ft. $.94/ft for 5/16" at Milwaukee rigging where I have bought rope a few times.

Stretch is about 2.5% @20% vs 1.4% and 3500# vs 5500# tensile strength. I make that to be about 2.8 times the stretch. That's real bad for halyards and sheets.

 

[e38 owner]

I did a main halyard this year with Yale Christiline
I used 3/8 9.5 mm
Did the splices myself
Very Happy holds much better in my older clutch than Samson warpspeed on the jib halyard

 

[bgary]

Another line worth considering is FSE "Globe 5000 Mk-II"

Polyester cover with a dyneema core. Very strong, low stretch, easy on the hands.

I use some of this in 10mm for my jibsheets and like it a lot. In 8mm (5/16"), it's in that "roughly a buck a foot" category

Bruce

 

[Loren Beach]

While the eye splice sounds good in theory, in practice it is advantageous to be able to take the line down every few years, wash it, and put it back up "end for ended" ....
If changing anything about our present T-900 line, I would have added a "luggage tag" to the ends to facilitate tying on a small diameter tag line to make removal and re-reeving go a Lot faster. (stitching it works great, but adds some time to the task.)

Here is a thread with some pix of our last halyard change out.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-Halyard-Shackle-Knot-questions&referrerid=28

I still like using a knot to secure it to the shackle. Also, most any splice you put in has a strong chance of jamming in the sheave at the top of the mast. The "bury" on a splice takes up quite a bit of room.

 

[bgary]

APS Line sale

For those thinking about new halyards, jibsheets, whatever.... this isn't the best sale I've ever seen APS have (sometimes they do 25% off) but it isn't bad:

20% off all line

http://www.apsltd.com/line.html

... including 20% off all pre-spec'd halyards

http://www.apsltd.com/line/pre-specified-sailboat-halyard-line-rope.html

Bruce

 

[JSM]

Cajun Trading / Nova Braid XLE

Did all of the running rigging on my 34-2 last year with line purchased from Cajun Trading. On the website the line is called Cajun XLE but is actually Nova Braid.
This is the second boat that I have done with this line and have had no problems with it. The line has a nice feel to it and is easy to splice.
http://www.cajuntrading.ca/