E-25 survive knockdown??

[briangsmith]

ok, so, i've been sailing the better part of a summer with her-
'78 E-25- lovely first boat, very forgiving, fast, fun and furious.
but i have not read anywhere whether anyone with an E-25 has
been knocked down in heavy seas; will she come back up??
what can one do to increase the odds/make the experience as
painless as possible???

brian smith
s/v sparke plenty
E-25 C/B

 

[Seth]

Knockdown

No worries-there are no production cruising, or racing, or racing cruising boats out there that won't self-right from a knockdown. They would not sell if they didn't, and now I believe the ABS construction standards require this also.

In fact, for offshore racing, where we push stability to the limit, the boats are REQUIRED to prove they will self right.

Your biggest concern in those conditions is water entering the cabin during your "event". When sailing in extreme conditions, you MUST have the hatch boards in place and the sliding hatch SHUT.

For serious offshore work, most sailors replace the 3-4 piece hatchboard with a strong one piece hatch (used in very rough conditions), and have a method of LOCKING the hatch shut (with a hasp, hook, etc.).

But even if it filled up (although I guess sinking is possible), it will right itself from a wind or wave induced knockdown!

Cheers,
S

 

[ref_123]

Dismasting

Agree with Seth, as always. Be advised though that there is always a chance to loose your rig in a bad knockdown or a roll. Have a wire cutter on board... Just in case. Better to loose a rig than the whole boat.

Regards,
Stanly

 

[briangsmith]

thanks seth, stanly- 'no stupid questions', right?
that one has just been nagglin' me.. and it's the one
function of the boat which i will, hopefully, not be testing
anytime soon!

bgs

 

[Dave Hussey]

and lock the lazerette

and don't forget to lock the lazerette closed...I read of a sail boat that sank because the lazerette swung open during a knockdown and scooped the sea right into the boat.

 

[Seth]

Knockdowns

Excellent point about the lazerette-in heavy conditions-ALL point of access to the interior of the boat must be well secured!

The rig will almost certainly go if the boat is rolled all the way-but probably not if you are laid over by a huge wave-it would have to be well under water (the rig) to lose it.

Wind alone cannot roll the boat even 90 degrees-so your wife can take some comfort in this-it would take waves WELL over 25-30 feet to get you in a situation like that-combined with gale force winds-weather few 25's will ever see. By the time the rails more than about 6" under (MAYBE 40 degrees?) the weight of the keel with bring the boat back once the sails are eased.

While there are so many things that can happen to sailors that are bad, this is not the one to really worry about-did I mention earlier that over 80% of the male bodies recovered by the USCG have their zippers down?

Cheers,
S

 

[Art Mullinax]

Remember the Titanic.

ALL of the points mentioned above will increase your survival rate in case of a knockdown but remember the Titanic? They said it was unsinkable!!!
Art M

 

[e38sailorman]

The lazerette point is well taken, a J24 sank this summer racing off Seattle, got knocked down, lazerette hatch opened boat filled with water and sank...not good.

 

[briangsmith]

E-25 does not have locking laz. hatches- i'll look into
a way to modify and add...

bgs

 

[Sven]

Have a wire cutter on board... Just in case.

That's one piece of equipment that I have been shopping for but not found yet. Not found meaning of practical size to be easily reachable and usable under such chaotic conditions. Dropped overboard they would do no good. Too large to stow accessibly they again would do no good. Too small a whimpy they again would do no good.



-Sven

 

[Art Mullinax]

Nut splitter

Look around in some of the automotive tool supply houses. They have a device called a "Nut Splitter". I use one to remove rusted or frozen nuts when working on junker cars. You may be able to modify it to suit your purpose or a wire cable supplier may have something. You would use a wrench to turn a cutter to cut the cable...
Art M

 

[Seth]

10-4 on the cutters!

Something you would hate to have to use, but super important if you need it, is wire or bolt cutters..Why? If you lose the rig overboard (shroud fails, chainplate pulls out, etc) and you are not able to get the whole thing back on deck, if the waves are big you will sometimes find the broken bits bashing themselves into the hull-they can actually put a hole in the boat!

When this happens-the safest thing to do is cut the mess free and call you insurance agent.

I have had the pleasure of dropping the rig on a dark night while sailing a Choate 40 in the Tri Island Race (A Socal 180 miler that may have been discontinued) during the Whitney Series. About 20 miles NE of Santa Barbara Island (near Catalina) in 20 foot seas and about 30 knots of breeze. A squall had come through at about 10:30 that took several rigs out of boats in this race.

The stump was indeed bashing into the boat and it was critical that we cut it away before more damage occurred-I'll never forget the sight of 2 guys trying to cut the uppers away-all the while being washed over by waves and barfing ('cause I was one of 'em).

But lucky for us-cut it away we did-and motored into the Isthmus for breakfast, then motored back to LA to give the bad news to the owner!!

Keep em on board.
S

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I have seen a device advertised that utilizes an explosive charge of some sort that will instantly sever the shroud. It can be quickly reloaded and used again. I can t recall what it was called or where I saw it though. Cable cutters kept in a case secured to the underside of a cockpit locker lid would probably be pretty accessible as well...

 

[NateHanson]

I've seen that in the landfall navigation catalog. It shoots 22 ca. blanks, driving an enclosed cutter that instantly severs the shroud. Pretty cool, and easy to use with one hand on a pitching deck. (pretty darn expensive though, if I recall - I think $800 or something)

Edit - Couldn't find it in Landfall. Not sure now where I saw it. Maybe they just don't carry it anymore.

 

[Loren Beach]

Cutting Comments

The explosive bolt cutters have been around for quite a few years now, although I cannot find a link offhand. Try a shout to Brion Toss for more info, http://www.briontoss.com/.

Here is a link for a hydraulic version:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|108024&id=155930
$735. from Defender Indus. This would also avoid any remotely-possible legal hassle over having a "firearm" on board.

I would only add that for a small boat with: 1) a deck-stepped mast, and 2) internal halyards, you should be able to jetison the pretzeled rig by pulling the pins at all deck connection points and then cutting loose the halyards where they are still holding the butt of the spar near the cabintop step. That's what we did when we had to jetison the hairpinned spar on a Ranger(Yacht) 29, off the Washington coast, over two decades ago.
The memory lingers...

That particular boat had, it turned out, crevice corrosion inside one of the swages on a lower shroud. The wire parted inside the top part of the normal-appearinbg swage, the other lower broke the toggle with a bang, and the rig folded neatly at the spreaders and collapsed over the side -- all this in a heartbeat!
For the driver, it happened so fast that the only sensation was a loud bang, and the realization the boat was stopped and there was nothing to impede vision forward anymore! :eek:

I was driving, closehulled, on a sunny day with seas about the usual summery 3 to 4 feet, with the lapper and main. Summer vacation and the trip north ended abruptly; we returned to Astoria with the boom, the jib, and nothing else...

What with the "party line" aspect of VHF radio, and our check-in calls to the Coast Guard, we were well known around the docks the moment we arrived!

The rig was only a bit over a decade in age, but had been raced a lot in (salty) Puget Sound before being purchased by the owner I was sailing with.

It was a valuable learning experience, but not one I would care to repeat.

Cheers,
Loren in PDX