E26 bilge - what's under the liner?

[Bradley Guy]

Hello knowledgable folks,

I'm hoping someone could tell me what I would find if I were to cut a big hole in the fiberglass liner at the bottom of my 1984 E26 bilge access openings. Specifically, how deep is the area underneath and where would the lowest point be?

I get a lot of water in the bilge. I belive it's mostly rainwater from stanchions and fittings that I'll need to re-bed this summer. But in the meantime, I'd like to install a small automatic bilge pump. At present, the bilge access is too shallow to fit a pump, and if I install a pump I'd like to get it as low in the true bilge as possible. There seems to be quite a bit of void under the liner (enough to fit almost 2 gallons of water anyway).

Also, if anyone has any reasons why I really shouldn't (carefully) cut into this please enlighten me.

Photos of my poor old sole and the openings in question are attached.
Thanks!!

 

[Loren Beach]

Not seeing any big ol' SS nuts, I wonder if your model has internal ballast? If so there might indeed be some space below the TAFG and the top of the lead.

Given that the part of the bilge are shown maybe structural , I would also ponder a bit before cutting holes in it, depending on the size of the hole of course.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I'm not too wild about the idea of cutting into it.

You can fit a small bilge pump in there as is. I've attached a picture of the one in my boat. It is indeed small, but is good for removing most of the water that can find its way in there. (This picture was taken in the context of my replacement of the cabin sole, which explains why the flooring is missing.)

 

[Bradley Guy]

Not seeing any big ol' SS nuts, I wonder if your model has internal ballast? If so there might indeed be some space below the TAFG and the top of the lead.

Given that the part of the bilge are shown maybe structural , I would also ponder a bit before cutting holes in it, depending on the size of the hole of course.

It is an encapsulated keel (from what I understand) and I was kinda assuming that the pan/sump area was set between grid structures - so if I were to cut a 4x6 inch opening I could get a bilge pump a little lower and I wouldn't be messing with anything structural. But I'm just guessing.

 

[Bradley Guy]

I'm not too wild about the idea of cutting into it.

You can fit a small bilge pump in there as is. I've attached a picture of the one in my boat. It is indeed small, but is good for removing most of the water that can find its way in there. (This picture was taken in the context of my replacement of the cabin sole, which explains why the flooring is missing.)

View attachment 41782

Thanks for the photo - that's super helpful to see! You're right that I could find a pump that would fit, but I also just want to get as much standing water out as I can. Even when there is no water visable in the bilge, I can stick a small hose into the void under the pan and use a transfer pump to pull out a big bucket full of water.

 

[Alan Gomes]

It is an encapulated keel (from what I understand) and I was kinda assuming that the pan/sump area was set between grid structures - so if I were to cut a 4x6 inch opening I could get a bilge pump a little lower and I wouldn't be messing with anything structural. But I'm just guessing.

What year is your boat? Mine is a 1984 with an encapsulated keel. Some of the E26's (later ones, I think) had bolt-on keels.

By the way: It would be a good thing to put your boat and engine info in your signature line. It will often help others in answering questions to know some of those facts.

 

[Bradley Guy]

What year is your boat? Mine is a 1984 with an encapsulated keel. Some of the E26's (later ones, I think) had bolt-on keels.

By the way: It would be a good thing to put your boat and engine info in your signature line. It will often help others in answering questions to know some of those facts.

Mine's a 1984 as well. I'm assuming encapsulated keel because if there are keel bolts they'd have to be hidden under the bilge liner (and I can't imagine they woulda built it like that). But the boat is new to me and I've got a lot to learn!

 

[Alan Gomes]

Thanks for the photo - that's super helpful to see! You're right that I could find a pump that would fit, but I also just want to get as much standing water out as I can. Even when there is no water visable in the bilge, I can stick a small hose into the void under the pan and use a transfer pump to pull out a big bucket full of water.

Any pump can only get out so much water, because once the pump stops, the residual water in the hose run will flow back. You will never get out 100%. That last little bit requires a turkey baster, small hand pump, or something along those lines. A wet-dry shop vac also works great for this, if you don't mind plugging it in. I get what you are trying to accomplish here, though. By having a pump below the level of the TAFG, you are hoping to keep the TAFG compartments dry, even though there will still be residual water below the TAFG level. (I assume that's what you're after, anyway.) To me, the amount of water that remains in the TAFG compartment with my pump is quite minimal, so it doesn't bother me a whole lot. Some people install check valves in the line to keep out all of the water, but I didn't do that because check valves are prone to fail.

More directly to your point: I'm not sure what would happen if you cut the TAFG there. Certainly there is a void underneath, but just how wide it is and how far underneath is something I can't say. But I can tell you that Randy Shelman, who used to have an E26 and post on this forum, cut a hole in the liner near the engine compartment so he could mount a large-ish bilge pump in case the boat found itself in need of serious dewatering. (It wasn't to get the last drop out of the TAFG, as is your goal.) He and his wife cruised the boat around the Bahamas and he wanted a larger pump for offshore work, for additional safety. He sent me a picture of it, which I've posted below. That installation isn't going to dry out your TAFG, but it would move a fair amount of water if the level were at or above the cabin sole. He told me that the pump is a Rule 3700.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Mine's a 1984 as well. I'm assuming encapsulated keel because if there are keel bolts they'd have to be hidden under the bilge liner (and I can't imagine they woulda built it like that). But the boat is new to me and I've got a lot to learn!

Yeah, same as mine. It's an encapsulated keel.

These are fun sailing boats, by the way.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I'm not too wild about the idea of cutting into it.

You can fit a small bilge pump in there as is. I've attached a picture of the one in my boat. It is indeed small, but is good for removing most of the water that can find its way in there. (This picture was taken in the context of my replacement of the cabin sole, which explains why the flooring is missing.)

View attachment 41782

By the way: In that photo I had unscrewed the pump and moved it to the side. That's why it is canted at an angle and not more centrally located in the compartment.

 

[KS Dave]

I'll chime in with a few pictures. I'm going to do a fuller blog post on this later, but here's where I am right now. My sole was rotted out and diesel-soaked, so I peeled it out. At this point, the plan is to sand the adhesive and remaining wood off. Prime it and paint with a nonskid additive. I cut new cover pieces for the bilge compartments.

My original 1 1/2" bilge pump hose was also a mess, so I'm replacing it (in progress). I've already rebuilt the Whale manual pump and need to get it re-installed, too. Here's what the old hose looks like. It's really jammed in there.

I ran a new 3/4" hose for the auto-pump and cut a hole (I was inspired by Randall's idea as Alan showed earlier in the thread). Long-term, I want to get a diaphragm pump and only have a scupper and float switch in the forward-most bilge compartment.